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Seeking Assistance with Anticipated Results

Grayson_Stewart · 2004-11-09T22:14:25+00:00

Brought over from old forumtheholymackerel(stranger)12/04/03 02:06 PMNeed help with expected output I would greatly appreciate anyones help with this. How much booze should I expect to get with these recipies:A) 10 pounds oats mixed to 6 gallons.B) 7 pounds rye, 3 pounds corn, 2 pounds malted 2-row mixed to 6 gallons.I’ve made these many times and while I love the product, I don’t think I ever came close to a full conversion of starch to sugar.The last time I made oat whiskey (my favorite) I only got 2 liters of 55% final product after dilution. Thats gotta be way low I think. My last batch of Trainin’-Wheel Rye (my woman loves rye whiskey but insists on lots of corn in it… then she got mad at me when i named it “Trainin’-Wheel”… go figure…) only yielded just under 3 liters of 55% after dilution.These #’s can’t be right…I must be doin’ crappy mashes.Could any of ya’ll gimme an idea of what these recepies should be yieldin’ ?Post Extras: Print Posttater(member)12/04/03 06:03 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] You can check your starch content by putting some wash in a spoon and adding a few drops of iodine.Be sure to discard and wash spoon iodine is poision.When i do a 12 gallon wash with brew at 25 on balling scale i get around 3 gallons of 100 proof brew. Later said taterPost Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/04/03 07:51 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] there’s a chart of estimated grain yields here on the site under grain mash… It even includes oatmeal.I stared at it for a while but I’ll need to be a little more awake to work out how to apply the info there… perhaps one of the smart people (yeah we have a few of them around here) can have a peek and tell us how it’s done.my sense of it though is that with so-so but not unreasonably bad conversion (say %65-%70) and a similar quality ferment and a still that doesn’t leak too much vapor you aren’t really far from the mark…based on what you’ve said, your last oat mash was at least %5 etoh and your last rye mash would have been between %7 and %8… so you are pretty consistantly brewing up beer strength mash.(that’s pretty traditional and it avoids some pitfalls of off flavors in higher alcohol grain mashes)I’d guess off the top of my head that you got a more efficent yield with the oats than with your rye mix… but chances are if you are starch converting the oats pretty efficently (and it seems like you are) that your hangup with the rye isn’t in the mashing but in the ferment.I’d try cutting that grain bill by %25 or more and see if you don’t get the same output.Did you try tasting your mash at the end of the ferment?I’m betting your oat mash is dry and your rye mash is still sweet.what are you using for yeast?”Please don’t drink and derive” -MADD Mathematicians Against Drunk DerivingPost Extras: Print PostBlanchy(stranger)12/05/03 06:54 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] Im confused ‘mackrel. How did the oats ferment? There isn’t any malt in that recipe to break down the starches into sugar.ChuckPost Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/05/03 11:09 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] And yet… he’s getting %5 abv in six gallons of mash with 10lbs of grain.Sounds like he’s got a way.amalase additive?malting some of the oats?remember Chuck, you don’t strictly need malt to get the starch to turn to sugar. The starch wants to turn to sugar… the enzymes just help it along, and most grains contain a little enzyme anyway.Plenty of the old corn moonshiners didn’t really do a mashing step at all, they set some of their wet cracked grain in a bag in the manure pile and mixed that into the starchy slurry of untreated corn when they pitched their yeast.The starch would convert as the fermentation progressed… not very efficently but enough to get the %5 or%6 they were looking for with a bunch of wasted grain (which didn’t cost them anything).”Please don’t drink and derive” -MADD Mathematicians Against Drunk DerivingPost Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/05/03 12:46 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] I realize this, but if there wasn’t anything else added, you would get just the conversion of whatever sugars were present in the oats and whatever hydrolyzed just due to contact with the water i.e not much. I was just curious what else was added.ChuckPost Extras: Print Posttater(member)12/05/03 05:03 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: tater] OH yeah the iodine will turn wash purple if theres still starch in it. Fourway ive seen corn put in sawdust piles buried under leaves and mulsh. To make malt. Never thought using manure. Dont think id wanna drink any brew with that in the recipe. lolPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/06/03 10:58 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] I used a amylise powder after over-cookin’ the oats. I don’t like to add malted barley to my oat whiskey ’cause it tastes better with pure oats.I only get a small yield from the oats, but boy is it good stuff!Yee-Haww!!!Post Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/06/03 11:03 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] So do ya’ll think I’m gettin’ decent conversions?Post Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/07/03 07:56 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] They sounded okay to me. For every pound of sugar that is extacted from you feed starches, that then ferments, you will make approximately 1/2 pound of alcohol, or a little over a cup.Another way to do it is to figure 30 points per pound of grist. Times say 10 pounds divided by 6 gallons gives an O.G. of 1.050. Say it ferments to 1.005, then the reduction is 45 points. Divide that by 7.4 give an alcohol content of 6% by volume. Multiply that by the 6 gallons gives 0.36 gallons of alcohol. At 55% alcohol, thats 10.5 pints of ‘shine. You had close to 75% conversion from grain to ‘shine. I think that’s pretty good. You should probably just step up the amount of oats used next time to get to a potential alcohol of say 8 or 9.You can scale this to any size you like and can get more scientific by replacing my 30 points with the actual number found four your grain (30 is always close).ChuckPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/08/03 10:48 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] My heartfelt thanks to ya’ll for the info and advise.Blanchy: I was with ya up to “Divide that by 7.4″… where did 7.4 come from? I get the rest of yer equasion.I wish I could add more oats but 10 pounds/6 gallons is the most oats that will physically fit. The only way I could get more whiskey from oats is to add sugar (which I don’t wanna do). When I make whiskey from other grains I strain out the grains after fermentation and usually start the next batch on the old spent grains + 1.5 gallon setback+ten to twelve pounds sugar to make 6 gallons total. But with oats there are no grains left after fermentation to strain out. Truly.Make a batch of oat whiskey and see that it is a very strange fermentation: Cook 10 pounds of oats ’till its oatmeal. Use more water when cookin’ than oatmeal requires… three gallons for ten pounds grain.After grain is cooked do a mash with amylise and beano.Take the mashed oatmeal and put it in a 6 and a half gallon (or larger) fermenter. It will fill it almost to the 6 gallon mark. Let it cool till the next mornin’.Open yer fermenter and stir in a quart or so of water into the top layer of oatmeal. Now ya have a thinner (more viscus) layer on top. Add yeast and amylise and beano to this layer.As days go by the yeast/enzymes work their way down the fermentor givin’ ya a bigger liquid layer on top. Stir the oats a tiny bit deeper each day (gently as not to oxygenate) bringin’ some of the solid oatmeal up into the slurry each day. When ya get to the bottom of the fermenter and it stopps bubblin’ yer ready for the still. No strainin’ / filterin’ needed.I allways run my still slowly with a lower heat then normal for oat whiskey cause I burned a little bit to the bottom of my still once… but it didn’t taste burnt… it tasted fine. Dunno why. I burnt corn whiskey batches twice while I was first learnin’ and they were undrinkable, but the oat was ok…weird.Edited by theholymackerel (12/08/03 10:55 AM)Post Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/08/03 11:59 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] I’m going to try your recipe. I assume that you don’t age this much. The 7.4 is just the easy conversion from gravity to alcohol content. If you look at a hydrometer that has scales for both potential alcohol and gravity and did the division, you would get 7.4.ChuckPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/08/03 02:48 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] Thanks for the 7.4 explanation.Oat whiskey is the smoothest whiskey straight outta a still I ever tasted, but it does get much better with age. I find roughly 100 days on untoasted oak to be about perfect.Post Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/08/03 03:55 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] %5 is a totally respectable traditional whisky mash abv. there is virtually no heirloom process that looks for an ending abv higher than %8.If the output is as good as you say I’d look for a bigger cooker and a bigger fermenter and a bigger still rather than trying to muck about with your mash.ether that or make it twice as often.”Please don’t drink and derive” -MADD Mathematicians Against Drunk DerivingPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/08/03 09:51 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] As an American and an expatriot Texan… yes… bigger is better. Yee-Haww!!!Post Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/25/03 11:58 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] Something occurs to me about this method… It should be possible to do rye the exact same way and I’m willing to bet that this method has been traditional at various times with both oats and rye…The two things that lead to this insight are that both oats and rye are traditionally fermented “on the grains” meaning without straining or sparging after mashing…And that there is a great deal of unsubstantiated folktale style rumor that flies around warning that mashing oats or rye can create deadly toxic bacteria.Well it makes a lot of sense that a barrel of thick porrage at room temp with some yeast and enzymes slowly eating its way down through the mass for a fortnight could easily create some nasties that would make tasting the fermented mash straight before distilling into a pretty bad idea.If anyone was ever to try to make beer this way they could probably count on being very ill.So chances are that the reason that both oats and rye share the dubious distinction of a scary rumor is that both used this nifty mass of seething porrage technique.”I’m na drunk lang as I’n hold fast to blade a grass n keep me from sliding off the world.”-GrampaPost Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/25/03 10:30 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] Fourway,The nasties that you are thinking of would probably be the ergot fungus. This stuff is an aerobe would not do well in a fermenter. Unless you are thinking of something else.ChuckPost Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/26/03 02:05 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] No I’m not thinking of ergot which only grows on live rye.I don’t need assurances, as I said I’ve always discounted this particular warning because while it is often repeated it seems not to be substantiated anywhere in print anywhere except for a hippy dippy book about growing a garden for home brewing.the exact text of the warning cut and pasted from elsewhere in this forum where it has been repeated at least twice is:(disclaimer:this is a paste of a warning which I don’t give any credence to… anybody assuring me that I don’t need to worry about it or expressing fear as if I was actually issuing this warning will be mocked for poor reading comprehention and MAS-end disclaimer)Start of paste——Malting for home use is not a difficult procedure, but it should NOT be attempted with oats or with rye.These grains, when malting, tend to attract butryfying bacteria – these organisms, by themselves are poisonous, and so is the butanol isomers that these bacteria produce.If you have a need for a malt of either of these grains – purchase it ready made rather than poisoning yourself with the homemade type.End of paste—A foo warning like that makes acres more sense if some joker tried to make beer using the great mass of rotting porrage method described by the holy mackrel now doesn’t it?”I’m na drunk lang as I’n hold fast to blade a grass n keep me from sliding off the world.”-GrampaPost Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/26/03 08:42 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] Fourway,I have heard that it is hard to malt rye and oats with no further explanation. Maybe this is it.ChuckPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(journeyman)12/26/03 05:48 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] That seals it…From now on I will allways refer to it as my “mass of seething porrage technique”.Has a nice lilt to it, eh?Post Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/27/03 07:54 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] The mass of seething porrage factor may have something to do with why there are no commercial distillers making oat whiskey anymore.”Sometimes too much to drink is barely enough.” -Mark TwainPost Extras: Print PostNeener(stranger)12/30/03 11:11 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] holymackerel:You say cook the oats like oatmeal. Do you boil it? If so, for how long?Then, you say: “After grain is cooked do a mash with amylise and beano. ” I assume, what you say directly after this sentence is you describing how to do what is in quotes, is that right?How much amylase do you use? How much beano?When you say 10 # oatmeal per 6 gallons, do you mean a TOTAL volume of 6 gallons?Approx how long does it take to ferment?How much foreshots do you discard?NeenerPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(journeyman)12/30/03 02:53 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Neener] >>You say cook the oats like oatmeal. Do you boil it? If so, for how long? <<HerEsta es la manera más fácil: Pon 10 libras de copos de avena en tu fermentador. Vierta sobre ellos unos 3 galones de agua hirviendo. Remueva el agua con un utensilio de mango largo. Deje que la avena se cueza durante unos 10 minutos y luego añada agua fría hasta un total de 6 galones y remuévala en la capa superior para enfriarla y diluirla: "Después de que el grano esté cocido hacer un macerado con amylise y beano. "Supongo que lo que dices justo después de esta frase es que estás describiendo cómo hacer lo que está entre comillas, ¿es correcto?<<WheCuando la capa superior del fermentador esté lo suficientemente fría, vierta las enzimas y la levadura. Añade amilasa según las instrucciones que vienen con tu amilasa (mi botella dice una cucharadita por galón). Yo añado entre 30 y 50 gotas de beano.<<un par de semanas>>¿Cuántos delanteros descartas?<<150-200 mlEl whisky de avena sólo se diferencia de cualquier otro whisky en que la avena cocida se convierte en avena cuando se cuece... ya sabe... semisólida. Aparte de eso, sólo se hace whisky: almidón en azúcar... fermentar... dos veces en alambique... envejecer... disfrutar. Como cualquier otro whisky.Post Extras: Imprimir PostNeener(extraño)01/03/04 06:32 PMRe: Necesito ayuda con la salida esperada nuevo [re: theholymackerel] holymackerel:Muchas gracias por su ayuda hasta ahora. Algunas preguntas rápidas más. Tengo muchas ganas de hacer este whisky de avena, pero no tengo la amilasa. Sin embargo, tengo 1 libra de malta crystal de cebada de 6 hileras. ¿Cree que podría utilizarla para convertir el almidón en azúcar? Se trata de lo que parecen semillas de cebada. También tengo un poco de maíz partido (y no tengo 10 libras de avena en copos). ¿Cree que funcionaría sustituir la avena por maíz partido, libra por libra? Soy consciente de que afectaría un poco al sabor. Pronto espero salir y conseguir una bolsa 50# más o menos de avena.NeenerPost Extras: Imprimir Posttheholymackerel(journeyman)01/04/04 11:49 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Neener] Puedes usar cebada malteada y también puedes usar maíz...pero no tendrá el mismo sabor. La avena tiene un sabor delicado que se pasa fácilmente. Por eso yo hago whisky de avena solo con avena. La enzima Amalise se puede comprar por correo en casi cualquier tienda de cerveza casera. Yo utilizo avena en rollos del supermercado. Cada pocas semanas hacen rebajas y me abastezco de avena. He utilizado avena de una tienda de piensos, pero el mejor whisky de avena que he probado nunca se hizo con avena laminada de la marca Quaker.Post Extras: Imprimir PostFourway(entusiasta)01/06/04 07:15 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] of you're up for the work and you can get whole unrolled untoasted oat grain you could make malted oats to use to convert your rolled oats.It actually sounds like fun to me. "Sometimes too much to drink is barely enough." -Mark TwainPost Extras: Imprimir PostNeener(novato)03/22/04 06:18 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] Bump...la gente realmente debería probar la receta de whisky de avena aquí. El mío no ha terminado de fermentar, pero el olor es el olor más increíble. Huele INCREIBLE. Próximamente habrá actualizaciones.NeenerPost Extras: Imprimir Posttheholymackerel(miembro)03/23/04 11:55 AMRe: El problema es que no me ha quedado claro el resultado de la fermentación de la cerveza: Imprimir PostNeener(novato)03/24/04 06:21 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] Usé SOLO avena. Para la levadura usé levadura de whisky con amiloglucosidasa. ¡Huele increíble! Aunque ayer me di cuenta de que empieza a oler increíble, ¡pero con un toque! Estaba bastante preocupado por la contaminación, porque cuando estaba preparando todo, me dieron un poco de retrolavado de mi burbujeador en mi lavado, y tenía algunas esporas de hongos evidentes en ella, pero parece que no es un problema. Cumplirá dos semanas el viernes. Creo que voy a esperar hasta que tenga 3 semanas. No puedo decidir si debería pasarlo una vez por mi alambique Amazing Still y luego una vez por mi alambique de olla, o dos veces por mi alambique de olla. Me inclino por la primera opción, para que esté "limpio" antes de pasarlo por el alambique. Estoy muy entusiasmado con esto. Me gustaria saber si se puede hacer en casa, si se puede hacer en casa, si se puede hacer en casa, si se puede hacer en casa, si se puede hacer en casa: Imprimir Posttater(miembro)03/24/04 06:56 AMRe: Necesito ayuda con la salida esperada nuevo [re: Neener] Tengo Tater querer probarlo también. Me preguntaba cómo funcionaría si usted consiguió un saco de avena en la tienda de piensos.brotó la semilla y luego puré como una malta todo verde?Post Extras: Imprimir Posttheholymackerel(miembro)03/24/04 11:13 AMRe: Necesito ayuda con salida esperada nuevo [re: tater] Neener: ¡Así se hace! Parece que tienes un buen lote. No sé cuánto tiempo más necesitarás para el frementation... apenas déjalo guardar el goin' 'hasta que se acaba. El lavado a través de una olla la primera vez o a través de su amazin 'todavía debe trabajar fuera de la misma. Haz lo que prefieras. Tater: ¡Eso suena como una gran idea! Pruébala y cuéntanos qué tal te sale.Post Extras: Imprimir Posttheholymackerel(miembro)03/28/04 04:49 PMRe: Necesito ayuda con la salida esperada nuevo [re: theholymackerel] ¡Hola! El viernes por la mañana decidí que mis dos macerados de avena de seis galones habían terminado de fermentar. Los pasé por mi alambique en cuatro tandas de 3 galones, los combiné y los pasé todos juntos una vez más.Obtuve suficiente para llenar uno de mis barriles de 5 litros más un poquito para rellenar el barril.Estoy tan contento con este último lote y con mi nueva junta de alambique... Finalmente estoy sacando lo suficiente de mi alambique para sentir que estoy obteniendo una buena conversión de almidón a azúcar.Hice dos cosas diferentes con este lote que pensé que funcionaron bien. La primera fue que en lugar de comprar avena Quaker Brand Oatmeal, compré avena orgánica mucho más barata en el mercado cooperativo hippy-dippy local. La avena orgánica era aproximadamente la mitad del tamaño de la avena Quaker, pero era más aromática, y costaba aproximadamente la mitad del precio.La segunda cosa que hice de manera diferente fue simplificar el proceso de maceración. Esterilicé mis fermentadores, vertí diez libras de avena en cada fermentador, luego llené cada fermentador con agua hirviendo hasta la marca de seis galones, los removí y los sellé. Después envolví los fermentadores en un edredón, los coloqué encima de varias capas de cartón y los dejé reposar hasta que alcanzaron una temperatura de unos 150 grados. Entonces añadí la amilasa y el beano, los envolví de nuevo y los dejé reposar hasta la mañana siguiente. A última hora de la mañana siguiente la temperatura había bajado a unos 80 grados, así que los abrí y añadí el zumo de lima, el nutriente de levadura, el activador de levadura y la levadura (levadura Nottingham ale). Se podían remover hasta la mitad del fermentador cuando se añadía la levadura, y estaban totalmente líquidas hasta el fondo en dos días. El "factor de masa porosa" (como lo llamó Fourway) desapareció casi por completo. La avena también se mantuvo unida y se desintegró en menor medida. Cuando llego el momento de pasarlo por el alambique, pude utilizar una bolsa de colar para eliminar gran parte de las cáscaras, lo que no habia podido hacer antes. Despues de rebajarlo a 105 grados y llenar el barril, le di un trago porque olia tan bien... La verdad es que nunca habia probado nada tan suave directamente del alambique. Me gustó tanto que acabé tomando más chupitos y encendiéndome. Jeje. No estoy acostumbrado a la prueba de 105. Les deseo suerte. La luz viaja más rápido que el sonido. Por eso algunas personas parecen brillantes hasta que las oyes hablar.

Hardware relacionado con la destilación de bebidas espirituosas

Buscar ayuda para los resultados previstos

Publicado por Grayson_Stewart el 9 de noviembre de 2004 a las 10:14 pm

Brought over from old forumtheholymackerel(stranger)12/04/03 02:06 PMNeed help with expected output I would greatly appreciate anyones help with this. How much booze should I expect to get with these recipies:A) 10 pounds oats mixed to 6 gallons.B) 7 pounds rye, 3 pounds corn, 2 pounds malted 2-row mixed to 6 gallons.I’ve made these many times and while I love the product, I don’t think I ever came close to a full conversion of starch to sugar.The last time I made oat whiskey (my favorite) I only got 2 liters of 55% final product after dilution. Thats gotta be way low I think. My last batch of Trainin’-Wheel Rye (my woman loves rye whiskey but insists on lots of corn in it… then she got mad at me when i named it “Trainin’-Wheel”… go figure…) only yielded just under 3 liters of 55% after dilution.These #’s can’t be right…I must be doin’ crappy mashes.Could any of ya’ll gimme an idea of what these recepies should be yieldin’ ?Post Extras: Print Posttater(member)12/04/03 06:03 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] You can check your starch content by putting some wash in a spoon and adding a few drops of iodine.Be sure to discard and wash spoon iodine is poision.When i do a 12 gallon wash with brew at 25 on balling scale i get around 3 gallons of 100 proof brew. Later said taterPost Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/04/03 07:51 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] there’s a chart of estimated grain yields here on the site under grain mash… It even includes oatmeal.I stared at it for a while but I’ll need to be a little more awake to work out how to apply the info there… perhaps one of the smart people (yeah we have a few of them around here) can have a peek and tell us how it’s done.my sense of it though is that with so-so but not unreasonably bad conversion (say %65-%70) and a similar quality ferment and a still that doesn’t leak too much vapor you aren’t really far from the mark…based on what you’ve said, your last oat mash was at least %5 etoh and your last rye mash would have been between %7 and %8… so you are pretty consistantly brewing up beer strength mash.(that’s pretty traditional and it avoids some pitfalls of off flavors in higher alcohol grain mashes)I’d guess off the top of my head that you got a more efficent yield with the oats than with your rye mix… but chances are if you are starch converting the oats pretty efficently (and it seems like you are) that your hangup with the rye isn’t in the mashing but in the ferment.I’d try cutting that grain bill by %25 or more and see if you don’t get the same output.Did you try tasting your mash at the end of the ferment?I’m betting your oat mash is dry and your rye mash is still sweet.what are you using for yeast?”Please don’t drink and derive” -MADD Mathematicians Against Drunk DerivingPost Extras: Print PostBlanchy(stranger)12/05/03 06:54 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] Im confused ‘mackrel. How did the oats ferment? There isn’t any malt in that recipe to break down the starches into sugar.ChuckPost Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/05/03 11:09 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] And yet… he’s getting %5 abv in six gallons of mash with 10lbs of grain.Sounds like he’s got a way.amalase additive?malting some of the oats?remember Chuck, you don’t strictly need malt to get the starch to turn to sugar. The starch wants to turn to sugar… the enzymes just help it along, and most grains contain a little enzyme anyway.Plenty of the old corn moonshiners didn’t really do a mashing step at all, they set some of their wet cracked grain in a bag in the manure pile and mixed that into the starchy slurry of untreated corn when they pitched their yeast.The starch would convert as the fermentation progressed… not very efficently but enough to get the %5 or%6 they were looking for with a bunch of wasted grain (which didn’t cost them anything).”Please don’t drink and derive” -MADD Mathematicians Against Drunk DerivingPost Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/05/03 12:46 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] I realize this, but if there wasn’t anything else added, you would get just the conversion of whatever sugars were present in the oats and whatever hydrolyzed just due to contact with the water i.e not much. I was just curious what else was added.ChuckPost Extras: Print Posttater(member)12/05/03 05:03 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: tater] OH yeah the iodine will turn wash purple if theres still starch in it. Fourway ive seen corn put in sawdust piles buried under leaves and mulsh. To make malt. Never thought using manure. Dont think id wanna drink any brew with that in the recipe. lolPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/06/03 10:58 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] I used a amylise powder after over-cookin’ the oats. I don’t like to add malted barley to my oat whiskey ’cause it tastes better with pure oats.I only get a small yield from the oats, but boy is it good stuff!Yee-Haww!!!Post Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/06/03 11:03 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] So do ya’ll think I’m gettin’ decent conversions?Post Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/07/03 07:56 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] They sounded okay to me. For every pound of sugar that is extacted from you feed starches, that then ferments, you will make approximately 1/2 pound of alcohol, or a little over a cup.Another way to do it is to figure 30 points per pound of grist. Times say 10 pounds divided by 6 gallons gives an O.G. of 1.050. Say it ferments to 1.005, then the reduction is 45 points. Divide that by 7.4 give an alcohol content of 6% by volume. Multiply that by the 6 gallons gives 0.36 gallons of alcohol. At 55% alcohol, thats 10.5 pints of ‘shine. You had close to 75% conversion from grain to ‘shine. I think that’s pretty good. You should probably just step up the amount of oats used next time to get to a potential alcohol of say 8 or 9.You can scale this to any size you like and can get more scientific by replacing my 30 points with the actual number found four your grain (30 is always close).ChuckPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/08/03 10:48 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] My heartfelt thanks to ya’ll for the info and advise.Blanchy: I was with ya up to “Divide that by 7.4″… where did 7.4 come from? I get the rest of yer equasion.I wish I could add more oats but 10 pounds/6 gallons is the most oats that will physically fit. The only way I could get more whiskey from oats is to add sugar (which I don’t wanna do). When I make whiskey from other grains I strain out the grains after fermentation and usually start the next batch on the old spent grains + 1.5 gallon setback+ten to twelve pounds sugar to make 6 gallons total. But with oats there are no grains left after fermentation to strain out. Truly.Make a batch of oat whiskey and see that it is a very strange fermentation: Cook 10 pounds of oats ’till its oatmeal. Use more water when cookin’ than oatmeal requires… three gallons for ten pounds grain.After grain is cooked do a mash with amylise and beano.Take the mashed oatmeal and put it in a 6 and a half gallon (or larger) fermenter. It will fill it almost to the 6 gallon mark. Let it cool till the next mornin’.Open yer fermenter and stir in a quart or so of water into the top layer of oatmeal. Now ya have a thinner (more viscus) layer on top. Add yeast and amylise and beano to this layer.As days go by the yeast/enzymes work their way down the fermentor givin’ ya a bigger liquid layer on top. Stir the oats a tiny bit deeper each day (gently as not to oxygenate) bringin’ some of the solid oatmeal up into the slurry each day. When ya get to the bottom of the fermenter and it stopps bubblin’ yer ready for the still. No strainin’ / filterin’ needed.I allways run my still slowly with a lower heat then normal for oat whiskey cause I burned a little bit to the bottom of my still once… but it didn’t taste burnt… it tasted fine. Dunno why. I burnt corn whiskey batches twice while I was first learnin’ and they were undrinkable, but the oat was ok…weird.Edited by theholymackerel (12/08/03 10:55 AM)Post Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/08/03 11:59 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] I’m going to try your recipe. I assume that you don’t age this much. The 7.4 is just the easy conversion from gravity to alcohol content. If you look at a hydrometer that has scales for both potential alcohol and gravity and did the division, you would get 7.4.ChuckPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/08/03 02:48 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] Thanks for the 7.4 explanation.Oat whiskey is the smoothest whiskey straight outta a still I ever tasted, but it does get much better with age. I find roughly 100 days on untoasted oak to be about perfect.Post Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/08/03 03:55 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] %5 is a totally respectable traditional whisky mash abv. there is virtually no heirloom process that looks for an ending abv higher than %8.If the output is as good as you say I’d look for a bigger cooker and a bigger fermenter and a bigger still rather than trying to muck about with your mash.ether that or make it twice as often.”Please don’t drink and derive” -MADD Mathematicians Against Drunk DerivingPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(newbie)12/08/03 09:51 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] As an American and an expatriot Texan… yes… bigger is better. Yee-Haww!!!Post Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/25/03 11:58 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] Something occurs to me about this method… It should be possible to do rye the exact same way and I’m willing to bet that this method has been traditional at various times with both oats and rye…The two things that lead to this insight are that both oats and rye are traditionally fermented “on the grains” meaning without straining or sparging after mashing…And that there is a great deal of unsubstantiated folktale style rumor that flies around warning that mashing oats or rye can create deadly toxic bacteria.Well it makes a lot of sense that a barrel of thick porrage at room temp with some yeast and enzymes slowly eating its way down through the mass for a fortnight could easily create some nasties that would make tasting the fermented mash straight before distilling into a pretty bad idea.If anyone was ever to try to make beer this way they could probably count on being very ill.So chances are that the reason that both oats and rye share the dubious distinction of a scary rumor is that both used this nifty mass of seething porrage technique.”I’m na drunk lang as I’n hold fast to blade a grass n keep me from sliding off the world.”-GrampaPost Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/25/03 10:30 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] Fourway,The nasties that you are thinking of would probably be the ergot fungus. This stuff is an aerobe would not do well in a fermenter. Unless you are thinking of something else.ChuckPost Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/26/03 02:05 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Blanchy] No I’m not thinking of ergot which only grows on live rye.I don’t need assurances, as I said I’ve always discounted this particular warning because while it is often repeated it seems not to be substantiated anywhere in print anywhere except for a hippy dippy book about growing a garden for home brewing.the exact text of the warning cut and pasted from elsewhere in this forum where it has been repeated at least twice is:(disclaimer:this is a paste of a warning which I don’t give any credence to… anybody assuring me that I don’t need to worry about it or expressing fear as if I was actually issuing this warning will be mocked for poor reading comprehention and MAS-end disclaimer)Start of paste——Malting for home use is not a difficult procedure, but it should NOT be attempted with oats or with rye.These grains, when malting, tend to attract butryfying bacteria – these organisms, by themselves are poisonous, and so is the butanol isomers that these bacteria produce.If you have a need for a malt of either of these grains – purchase it ready made rather than poisoning yourself with the homemade type.End of paste—A foo warning like that makes acres more sense if some joker tried to make beer using the great mass of rotting porrage method described by the holy mackrel now doesn’t it?”I’m na drunk lang as I’n hold fast to blade a grass n keep me from sliding off the world.”-GrampaPost Extras: Print PostBlanchy(newbie)12/26/03 08:42 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] Fourway,I have heard that it is hard to malt rye and oats with no further explanation. Maybe this is it.ChuckPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(journeyman)12/26/03 05:48 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] That seals it…From now on I will allways refer to it as my “mass of seething porrage technique”.Has a nice lilt to it, eh?Post Extras: Print PostFourway(member)12/27/03 07:54 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] The mass of seething porrage factor may have something to do with why there are no commercial distillers making oat whiskey anymore.”Sometimes too much to drink is barely enough.” -Mark TwainPost Extras: Print PostNeener(stranger)12/30/03 11:11 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] holymackerel:You say cook the oats like oatmeal. Do you boil it? If so, for how long?Then, you say: “After grain is cooked do a mash with amylise and beano. ” I assume, what you say directly after this sentence is you describing how to do what is in quotes, is that right?How much amylase do you use? How much beano?When you say 10 # oatmeal per 6 gallons, do you mean a TOTAL volume of 6 gallons?Approx how long does it take to ferment?How much foreshots do you discard?NeenerPost Extras: Print Posttheholymackerel(journeyman)12/30/03 02:53 PMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Neener] >>You say cook the oats like oatmeal. Do you boil it? If so, for how long? <<HerEsta es la manera más fácil: Pon 10 libras de copos de avena en tu fermentador. Vierta sobre ellos unos 3 galones de agua hirviendo. Remueva el agua con un utensilio de mango largo. Deje que la avena se cueza durante unos 10 minutos y luego añada agua fría hasta un total de 6 galones y remuévala en la capa superior para enfriarla y diluirla: "Después de que el grano esté cocido hacer un macerado con amylise y beano. "Supongo que lo que dices justo después de esta frase es que estás describiendo cómo hacer lo que está entre comillas, ¿es correcto?<<WheCuando la capa superior del fermentador esté lo suficientemente fría, vierta las enzimas y la levadura. Añade amilasa según las instrucciones que vienen con tu amilasa (mi botella dice una cucharadita por galón). Yo añado entre 30 y 50 gotas de beano.<<un par de semanas>>¿Cuántos delanteros descartas?<<150-200 mlEl whisky de avena sólo se diferencia de cualquier otro whisky en que la avena cocida se convierte en avena cuando se cuece... ya sabe... semisólida. Aparte de eso, sólo se hace whisky: almidón en azúcar... fermentar... dos veces en alambique... envejecer... disfrutar. Como cualquier otro whisky.Post Extras: Imprimir PostNeener(extraño)01/03/04 06:32 PMRe: Necesito ayuda con la salida esperada nuevo [re: theholymackerel] holymackerel:Muchas gracias por su ayuda hasta ahora. Algunas preguntas rápidas más. Tengo muchas ganas de hacer este whisky de avena, pero no tengo la amilasa. Sin embargo, tengo 1 libra de malta crystal de cebada de 6 hileras. ¿Cree que podría utilizarla para convertir el almidón en azúcar? Se trata de lo que parecen semillas de cebada. También tengo un poco de maíz partido (y no tengo 10 libras de avena en copos). ¿Cree que funcionaría sustituir la avena por maíz partido, libra por libra? Soy consciente de que afectaría un poco al sabor. Pronto espero salir y conseguir una bolsa 50# más o menos de avena.NeenerPost Extras: Imprimir Posttheholymackerel(journeyman)01/04/04 11:49 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Neener] Puedes usar cebada malteada y también puedes usar maíz...pero no tendrá el mismo sabor. La avena tiene un sabor delicado que se pasa fácilmente. Por eso yo hago whisky de avena solo con avena. La enzima Amalise se puede comprar por correo en casi cualquier tienda de cerveza casera. Yo utilizo avena en rollos del supermercado. Cada pocas semanas hacen rebajas y me abastezco de avena. He utilizado avena de una tienda de piensos, pero el mejor whisky de avena que he probado nunca se hizo con avena laminada de la marca Quaker.Post Extras: Imprimir PostFourway(entusiasta)01/06/04 07:15 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] of you're up for the work and you can get whole unrolled untoasted oat grain you could make malted oats to use to convert your rolled oats.It actually sounds like fun to me. "Sometimes too much to drink is barely enough." -Mark TwainPost Extras: Imprimir PostNeener(novato)03/22/04 06:18 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: Fourway] Bump...la gente realmente debería probar la receta de whisky de avena aquí. El mío no ha terminado de fermentar, pero el olor es el olor más increíble. Huele INCREIBLE. Próximamente habrá actualizaciones.NeenerPost Extras: Imprimir Posttheholymackerel(miembro)03/23/04 11:55 AMRe: El problema es que no me ha quedado claro el resultado de la fermentación de la cerveza: Imprimir PostNeener(novato)03/24/04 06:21 AMRe: Need help with expected output new [re: theholymackerel] Usé SOLO avena. Para la levadura usé levadura de whisky con amiloglucosidasa. ¡Huele increíble! Aunque ayer me di cuenta de que empieza a oler increíble, ¡pero con un toque! Estaba bastante preocupado por la contaminación, porque cuando estaba preparando todo, me dieron un poco de retrolavado de mi burbujeador en mi lavado, y tenía algunas esporas de hongos evidentes en ella, pero parece que no es un problema. Cumplirá dos semanas el viernes. Creo que voy a esperar hasta que tenga 3 semanas. No puedo decidir si debería pasarlo una vez por mi alambique Amazing Still y luego una vez por mi alambique de olla, o dos veces por mi alambique de olla. Me inclino por la primera opción, para que esté "limpio" antes de pasarlo por el alambique. Estoy muy entusiasmado con esto. Me gustaria saber si se puede hacer en casa, si se puede hacer en casa, si se puede hacer en casa, si se puede hacer en casa, si se puede hacer en casa: Imprimir Posttater(miembro)03/24/04 06:56 AMRe: Necesito ayuda con la salida esperada nuevo [re: Neener] Tengo Tater querer probarlo también. Me preguntaba cómo funcionaría si usted consiguió un saco de avena en la tienda de piensos.brotó la semilla y luego puré como una malta todo verde?Post Extras: Imprimir Posttheholymackerel(miembro)03/24/04 11:13 AMRe: Necesito ayuda con salida esperada nuevo [re: tater] Neener: ¡Así se hace! Parece que tienes un buen lote. No sé cuánto tiempo más necesitarás para el frementation... apenas déjalo guardar el goin' 'hasta que se acaba. El lavado a través de una olla la primera vez o a través de su amazin 'todavía debe trabajar fuera de la misma. Haz lo que prefieras. Tater: ¡Eso suena como una gran idea! Pruébala y cuéntanos qué tal te sale.Post Extras: Imprimir Posttheholymackerel(miembro)03/28/04 04:49 PMRe: Necesito ayuda con la salida esperada nuevo [re: theholymackerel] ¡Hola! El viernes por la mañana decidí que mis dos macerados de avena de seis galones habían terminado de fermentar. Los pasé por mi alambique en cuatro tandas de 3 galones, los combiné y los pasé todos juntos una vez más.Obtuve suficiente para llenar uno de mis barriles de 5 litros más un poquito para rellenar el barril.Estoy tan contento con este último lote y con mi nueva junta de alambique... Finalmente estoy sacando lo suficiente de mi alambique para sentir que estoy obteniendo una buena conversión de almidón a azúcar.Hice dos cosas diferentes con este lote que pensé que funcionaron bien. La primera fue que en lugar de comprar avena Quaker Brand Oatmeal, compré avena orgánica mucho más barata en el mercado cooperativo hippy-dippy local. La avena orgánica era aproximadamente la mitad del tamaño de la avena Quaker, pero era más aromática, y costaba aproximadamente la mitad del precio.La segunda cosa que hice de manera diferente fue simplificar el proceso de maceración. Esterilicé mis fermentadores, vertí diez libras de avena en cada fermentador, luego llené cada fermentador con agua hirviendo hasta la marca de seis galones, los removí y los sellé. Después envolví los fermentadores en un edredón, los coloqué encima de varias capas de cartón y los dejé reposar hasta que alcanzaron una temperatura de unos 150 grados. Entonces añadí la amilasa y el beano, los envolví de nuevo y los dejé reposar hasta la mañana siguiente. A última hora de la mañana siguiente la temperatura había bajado a unos 80 grados, así que los abrí y añadí el zumo de lima, el nutriente de levadura, el activador de levadura y la levadura (levadura Nottingham ale). Se podían remover hasta la mitad del fermentador cuando se añadía la levadura, y estaban totalmente líquidas hasta el fondo en dos días. El "factor de masa porosa" (como lo llamó Fourway) desapareció casi por completo. La avena también se mantuvo unida y se desintegró en menor medida. Cuando llego el momento de pasarlo por el alambique, pude utilizar una bolsa de colar para eliminar gran parte de las cáscaras, lo que no habia podido hacer antes. Despues de rebajarlo a 105 grados y llenar el barril, le di un trago porque olia tan bien... La verdad es que nunca habia probado nada tan suave directamente del alambique. Me gustó tanto que acabé tomando más chupitos y encendiéndome. Jeje. No estoy acostumbrado a la prueba de 105. Les deseo suerte. La luz viaja más rápido que el sonido. Por eso algunas personas parecen brillantes hasta que las oyes hablar.

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