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Using an Unmodified Keg as a Fermenter: Would I Regret It?
As the title suggests, I’m considering the possibility of using a completely unmodified half barrel keg as both a fermentation and steam stripping vessel. Specifically, this would be fermented and distilled on the grain. The idea being that I could just load the grain, water, and yeast into the keg and let it do its thing. Then, when the time is right, set up a steam stripper with my boiler and appropriate plumbing, leaving a keg full of all grain soup when I’m done. Hopefully, that would be wet enough to be able to flow out of the neck when inverted. I could always add extra water if I needed to.I definitely have plans/ideas for adding a larger clean out port to the keg, making it much easier to clean. But in the spirit of using what I have on hand (and because I want to make more booze NOW, damnit!), I found myself wondering just how bad an idea it would be to just use the keg as is.Learn from the past, live in the present, change the future.
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17 Replies
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I think at a minimum you need a 6″ access port and a 2″ drain if you’re going to do on grain… you need to be able to get I there and clean it. I’m sure it’s doable with just the sankey, but youll be hating life.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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I reckon you’d do one, maybe two runs like that before putting in a large access port.I wonder how much water volume it takes on from the steam?Cheers,j————i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred————
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I grind my grains to a rough flour consistency (Hammer mill with a 2mm screen IIRC) and I drain my steam stripper through a 1″ drain port at the bottom. It does take a little rinsing out with water, but my steam nozzle sits over the drain so I’m not making life easy for myself. The other day I ran several steam strips in one day and I think that filling my sanke boiler keg with water through the same 2″ port that I mount the steam head to, was as much grief as cleaning out the grains from the stripping keg. Although I have a slight advantage in that I have a 4″ port that I can use to spray water in while it drains which makes it a little less physical.The bigger problem that I see is that you are limited in the volume that you can ferment if you ferment and strip in the same keg. You’ll need to leave a reasonable head space for the extra volume that the steam will add. I like to siphon off the clear from an on-grain ferment, without squeezing the grains. The clear gets run normally on an electric element, and the slops go into the “thumper” for steam stripping. Siphoning off the clear from inside a stainless keg will not be very easy!”I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway” – JimboA little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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+1I put a 6″ ferrule on my steam keg thinking one day it could be used for mashes as well as strips but to date have never mashed/fermented in it, preferring a keggle with a 12″ hole cut out of the top. Consider that once your grains have fermented out and you are ready to insert your steam wand, flocculated sludge and custard have formed a heavy layer on the bottom of your vessel. My paint stirrer won’t fit in a 2″ hole but you might get away with a DIY ‘L-shaped’ mixer. Then there’s the hassle of emptying (lift, tip and shake?) the slop.“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”- W.C. Fields My EZ Solder Shotgun My Steam Rig and Manometer
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If you ferment on the grain, I would not use an unmolested keg. I have a keg with a 4″ tri clamp that I use with clear fluids only. I can clean the interior with a brush, but my arm only fits to the elbow. I would choose a minimum of 6 inch if I did it again and intended to use it to mash, ferment, and strip. I found a 300 mm (11.7 inch) manway for $ 40 on ebay. It says non pressure, but expect it will handle 1/2 psi when I install it.
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I would look for a 220 Lt barrel. That would give you enough stripping runs to use your keg for a spirit run. The barrel would give you plenty of room to mix your mash.TōtōSi vis pacem, para bellum
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My only concern with those is the gasket. For the money, it’s about the same price to add a 6” triclamp ferrule instead.I’ve got some 6” triclamp parts, I just need to get the right clamps (aliexpress sent me 6.5” instead). I think what I’ll do is flip the keg over and put the 6” on the bottom, and use the neck as a drain. Maybe add a 1.5” port to the side as we, to serve as another boiler if I need it. Given the advice and comments here, I don’t think I’ll risk going with an unmolested keg.Learn from the past, live in the present, change the future.
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I’ve never used a steam stripper. Roughly how much volume can I expect to add?I have been using a 15 gallon cooler as a fermenter. That’s right in like with the keg volume, so I assumed I would keep the same quantities. I’ve been doing 8-10 gallons of water, with around 2# of grain per gallon, which usually results in 10-12 or so gallons of mash.Assuming 12 gallons of mash, that leaves about 3 gallons of head space. I’ll likely strip 3 gallons out of that, which leaves a total of 6 gallons of water carryover before I overflow. I feel like the steam stripping threads I’ve read suggest that I would get to 50% of the initial mash volume, but I freely admit that I just don’t know enough.Learn from the past, live in the present, change the future.
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In my somewhat limited experience, the 50% sounds about right. But a lot of that volume will be gained before you start getting vapour to the condenser. Also from a quality and efficiency point of view I feel you get better low wines by directly heating the clear rather than by diluting it slightly with steam.If you have access to a pressure washer I’d give it a shot. In the worst case that cleaning turns out to be hell, you can leave it full of water to soak the bits and blast it out with a drain snake. Not saying it’ll be as easy as using a modified keg but it might let you have a play before committing the cash to building a dedicated steam stripper.”I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway” – JimboA little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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I kinda like the idea of using unmodified kegs for mashing, fermenting and steam stripping.Haven’t tried it yet, looking forward to what you find and share. I figure filling, draining and cleaning through a 2″ hole is going to need a workaround.But on the hobby scale, problems like that don’t matter much.
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I use these 2 calculations Time to boilhttps://gettopics.com/en/calc/water-heating-timeLiquid transfered as steamhttps://hobbybrennen.ch/Rechner/en/Watt … ntity.htmlGet the time it’ll take for to get beer to get to 190Use the milliliters per min and add that up, that’s how much you take on during warm up.Then calulate how long your run will take with one of the parent site calculators, subtract what you expect to remove as distillate. That’ll be your final volume.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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I can’t quite tell if you’re encouraging me, or seeing me up for an entertaining fail. Either way, I’m tempted to try it just for laughs. What’s the worst that can happen?Learn from the past, live in the present, change the future.
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My first few runs were in an unmodified keg sat on the kitchen hob! I would fill it, manhandle it into place, fit the still head and very inefficiently heat it up with the hob. Once the run was finished I would remove the head, let it cool a little and then grunt lots while moving a half full keg to near the sink so i could pour it out. I’m not saying it was easy but it let me get my first few runs done before braving stainless soldering. I say do it.In fact at one point I had a plan for a set of kegs mounted on a shelf for fermenting which I could gravity drain into the still. But I couldn’t get enough kegs at the right price and opted to scale up the ferments in larger buckets instead.”I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway” – JimboA little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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An unmodified keg is just a larger, unbreakable carboy that you can’t see thru. I wouldn’t hesitate to use it for a fermenter, but if you want to mash/ferment/steam strip in one vessel then you’ll need to keep the volume down around 10 gal/38 L (assuming 15.5 gal/59 L keg) so that you’ll have the head space to contain the water you’ll be adding. As Normandie said, you’ll get a few gallons of water coming over before you get any output vapor.You could rig up some kind of spray head for a CIP (Clean In Place) setup to let you use steam to clean the keg afterward. It could be as simple as a short, capped tube with several small holes drilled around the side to direct the steam horizontally. After dumping and hosing out, remove the down tube from your steaming assembly, add the spray head, then push steam thru it for a final cleaning. Of course you’ll still need an open system to keep the pressure from building.I will do 1 or 2 standard stripping runs of clear beer, then a steam strip of the remaining slurry. During each beer stripping run I use the PC output water to preheat the next boiler charge. That last boiler charge will start around 7-9 gallons and end up around 9-12 gal when I’m done. I use a 7.75 gal keg with 3500W element for my steam generator, and can use up to 5 gallons as steam, which has been adequate for me.HigginsFlute buildSteamer build4 methods experimentAging proof experimentNext batch: Malt Whiskey (60 barley/30 corn/10 wheat)
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Having just completed my first full mash and run in my tun/boiler with a 6″ opening I’d recommend going bigger than 6″. 6″ is basically the smallest id go so at least you can fit your arm in it. If you want actual working room 12″ is what I’d advise.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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The worst that can happen for you equals entertainment for the rest of us.
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I purchased a roll of expanded PTFE that works for a gasket.Another larger option is a 88 liter milk can with a 12″ lid . I have two that I use to mash, ferment and strip in. If you shop around, the items below can be purchased for less the $200. The lid with the tri clamp is for a 35 liter digi-boil beer making machine. I had to bend the outer rim of the lid a little to make it fit on the milk can. Then I replaced the gasket with the expanded PTFE. I use spring clamps from harbor freight to keep the lid on tight as the clamps on the milk can are a little weak.
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