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Specialty corn vs commercial corn
Recently I started down the ‘all corn’ whiskey rabbit hole of recipes and related discussions.There is some notion that the type or corn used will affect the taste – at least that is what the commercial distillers claim as they charge $$$ for their product.Does anyone in this forum have actual experience they care to discuss regarding blue or red or white corn versus typical dent corn?
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17 Replies
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Use the google search and search for red corn or blue corn. There has been plenty of discussion. Here is a link to a recent thread. viewtopic.php?t=92426
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I had the same question and did as good a side-by-side comparison as I could. I did a 100% yellow dent corn batch on 11-Nov and set it aside in glass without any oak. Then I did a 100% Bloody Butcher batch using otherwise the same techniques and materials, and ran it on 3-Dec. I then started aging both with oak.So far I can’t say I can tell any difference. They’re both quite good, but being all-corn somewhat one-dimensional. This of course may simply reflect my limited discernment. I intend to keep aging them and see whether they diverge over time.
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This is a topic of great interest to me and I continue to experiment with. I will typically grow a few different varieties of corn each year and have been testing batches. I can taste differences, hard to articulate them specifically. I don’t think they’re better or worse tasting just different. I think your results will be highly dependent on your distillation style as well as fermentation and cuts, since some of the flavors are subtle. The color variations can create different flavor compounds but also keep in mind heirloom varieties tend to have more fat and protein content which can also change flavor components. I try to find commercial products with different grain options noted for some “research” testing.
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Thanks for everyone who responded. I also read many postings regarding this type of specialty corn. A little background — I located a firm that will sell this specialty type grain MBS Texas Seed https://mbsseed.com/grain/ Here are some notions regarding price…
- Normal dent corn costs $10 at local feed dealer for 50# bag
- Blue corn costs about $27 plus another (approximately) $40 for S&H to my zip code.
- White corn costs about $32 plus another (approximately) $40 for S&H to my zip code.
- Jimmy Red corn costs $88 plus another (approximately) $40 for S&H to my zip code
That is 7x to 13x the cost of typical dent corn. That cost differential prompted my question.The best answers that I have gleaned so far are:There is a difference – fairly subtle is the consensus of this post and all others I have read.Try some commercial products from distillers with that type of product and determine what you think.
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Nice summary. My thinking is that my skills with distillation and selection of cuts are probably not far enough along yet to justify the very high cost. If I were growing my own corn for sure it would be some heirloom variety but not really possible in my yard.I have been considering trying flaked corn vs corn meal vs cracked corn from feed store to see how each impactscostprocess – ease / conveniencethen finally quality of finished productFlaked corn $1.75/lb shipped from MoreBeerCornmeal from Amazon $1.24/lb shippedCracked corn (organic) $0.50 per pound, pick up at Tractor SupplyHow does each impact process and what is best yield I can get from each with a convenient process on my equipment? I could really see flaked corn coming out ahead when all factors considered but every time I get a load of it in my shopping cart at MoreBeer I end up cancelling and going over to Tractor Supply
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Possibly you want to consider a grain grinder…These are available on eBay for $175 to $230. You will need to add an on/off switch and probably some mounting board. NBD.Armed with this device you can turn your Tractor Supply corn into corn meal or flour or cracked. Just change the grind tolerance.
Sold my roller mill used for beer and now use this instead. Use it outside — creates a lot of dust that you do not want inside.subbrew in a subsequent post has suggested flaked corn — sometimes it is known as steamed corn depending on the location.In our area of the mid-south no feed store provides this product. Apparently there are other cattle feed alternatives that are more common. His suggestion was great but you might have difficulty finding it.
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If you can find an animal feed store in your area you should be able to get flaked corn for about $15 a 50 lb bag. It may also be called rolled corn.
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is flaked corn from an animal feed store pregelatinized like brewer’s corn? that sounds like a great option I’d absolutely take a stab at paying that price and quite messing with gelatinizing…I’m paying $20 for a 40 pound bag of cracked corn now. I’d pay double that for flaked and never look back.
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I guess a bit of dr google says no…steam rolled corn might be close but even that is probably not fully gelatinized the way brewers corn is
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If you can rig a 1/2 electric drill & paint mixer over your pot, then you can’t go wrong with (fresh & untreated) cracked corn from a local feed store. With a knock-off Corona type grinder & a drill, I can grind 20.5 pounds of bourbon grain bill in about 10-15 minutesEdited to answer the original question:I’ve used feed store corn, flaked corn from a home brew supply, and recently Bloody Butcher and Wapsi Valley variety heirloom grains that cost me ~ $100 a sack after shipping. They all are good. I can afford the higher cost of heirloom grains & it still is cheaper than buying a bottle off the shelf. I also have no problem whatsoever of picking up a $15 sack of corn at the feed store and smiling as I walk out knowing that I just scored some good hooch. That’s whats great about this hobby of ours: it really doesn’t take much to create a nice spirit to share with others.🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting. Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
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True that, but I’ve found that mashing in the feed store steam rolled at >95°C will give you the same end result as brewers corn at 65°C. At the end of the day there’s plenty of ways to get a great result, it really comes down to your own preference of cost vs time vs effort.Cheers
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Only feed store near me is Tractor Supply. They seem to be willing to special order non local inventory items so looks like I could get that rolled corn but they don’t carry anything that says it is either steamed or flaked. Guess I just need to move.
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Look up some of the still it videos where Jesse discusses corn with Ironroot. They discuss some specific varieties they use and their techniques is using specialty corn as flavoring grains in the 5-20% mash bill component. This might get you some subtleties with less monetary input. Theres lots of homesteading forums you might find a home grower willing to supply you with some corn directly. Just a thought depending on how far you want to push the experiment. Feel free to PM me if you were interested in some of the stuff I’ve grown. I have red, white and a high carotenoid OP variety.
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I was just thinking about this subject yesterday, walking around the grocery store. Buy some blue corn tortilla chips. Maybe a few others if you can find them. Get some comparable quality white or twos corn ones, the. See if you can actually detect any real flavor difference in a blind tasting. It would at least give you an idea what degree of difference you’re looking at.Learn from the past, live in the present, change the future.
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I’m gonna hit up tsc in missouri Monday for rolled corn see what happens it’s 95 here for flaked maize see what I can get it for at tsc and see
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If you grind a lot of corn, get a hammermill. They are on the Big online stores, I got mine for ~$199 and wish that I had bought one years ago! Load it up, hit the button and that’s it. Different screens for coarseness adjustments, mine came with I think 4. For a specialty corn experiment——-My experience with Angel yellow label, after using it ONLY for years now for all types of all grain whiskey in completely different climates and many many barrels filled, is that it is as completely neutral as a yeast can be. No esters that I can detect in anything I have made, no phenols. Just the grains and a tiny bit of “yeast”, but faint. I like it for whiskey because I can really taste the different grains and what they bring to the table. So I think it would be a decent candidate for an experiment, and it couldn’t get any easier. Especially for a quick experiment, but one where you can also be about as close to the same for each batch as possible.Ut Alii Vivant!!!!
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Very little experience, but as usual I have an opinion. For market reasons dent corn has been bred for maximum starch.Other corn has less starch and more proteins.All the enzymes for conversion and much of the nutrients needed for fermentation are proteins.
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