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Solid Separation for Direct Fired Pots
Hi Guys,
I’m currently researching ways that we can deal with solids for making whiskey in our still. To start and to keep our initial equipment costs down we are looking at getting a microbrewer friend of mine to custom make our wort for us. Eventually though we would like to do it ourselves and I’d like to know how other people are dealing with this. I would really like to ferment on the grain if possible and separate after. Production wise we’re looking at 300-600 gallon batches once per day. Agitation does not seem possible because of the shape of our still aside from dragging a chain around the bottom but that doesn’t seem very realistic. I’ll attach a picture, the bottom where it would be direct fired is concave.
Cheers,
Connor
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17 Replies
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I’ve talked to a few people who have a similar setup, only with steam jackets. The key is to run it low and slow. The boiling action of the mash will create its own agitation. You’ll get a little scorch (probably a lot the first several times you try it), but you should be able to dial in your heat level eventually. It will take some trial and error though.
Ours is steam jacketed with an agitator, fyi, so I can only relay information from my conversations with others.
Good luck!
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Sik looking still!
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Yes, very impressive. Where did you find that?
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If you are doing malt whiskey, the barley husks are great filter media, a perforated false bottom works just great… just have one stainless tote with a false bottom for ‘lautering’
If you are doing Bourbon, the corn changes things, so get one of these LSS’s:
yes, maybe it is $20k for the LSS, but 300-600g batch per day is a $10k in final product revenue a day..
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You can have an agitator set up for your still to do the job without question. most blades on agitators are set up inches from the bottom and on an angle to agitate bottom to top motion. from your pic you already have two ports available for mounting. I guess i should first inquire for what the two ports in pic are for besides the obvious. but could definately be an option.
Matt
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Sik looking still!
Yes, very impressive. Where did you find that?
Thanks guys! If you are interested at looking at its progress check out my post “Hello from Northern California” in the Welcome and Introduce Yourselves forum.
Matt, the ports from left to right on the still are a sightglass, CIP system, arrival of wash, and blowoff valve. The only other port that you can’t see is another sightglass on the front. Were looking at the back of the still in the picture posted. I don’t think we will be using the arrival of wash port as our main method of filling because that comes from the preheater and we would like to load directly into the boiler. To load we will probably just be using the front sightglass. That leaves the back sightglass port for options. The still also does not come apart, so any sort of agitator would have to be inserted through the top unless we want to cut it open. I just don’t see this happening, maybe you have another idea that I’m not seeing.
Clearwater, we definitely want to do bourbon. I’ve actually already started looking into the LSS. From the email they sent me yesterday though they were saying that their base model was $29k? I wonder if their prices went up. Maybe we can find a used model…
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what is the diameter of the site glass opening? And yes there are options i can conceive of. Did i see a more detail pi and prints of this still in another thread? no cutting required. If so which thread was it?
Matt
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it would mean altering your still, but adding an agitator would keep your solids nicely suspended. as long as you don’t run too hot, you shouldn’t have to worry about scorching.
also you could add a steam jacket to just the bottom of the still, it would be hidden by your brick work.
Alternately a steam coil, might be difficult to fit in there, but wold be worth the work IMHO
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ASD, I’ve thought about the steam jacket route and contacted some manufactures but no one has ever gotten back to me. Any idea of how this would be done and who could do it? We have a shop guy that can fab something quick if its simple enough.
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if the bottom is thick enough material, I’d have a dimpled jacket made in copper and TIG welded to it. layer of insulation and you’re golden.
being that its all copper, you can get away with a smaller jacket than with stainless.
alternatively, external steam coils TIG welded to the outside may work (I’ve never tried this myself, but should work)
I would reccommend at least 3- 1″ copper coils with 2 wraps each. manifold together on the steam input and on the output before your condensate trap.
again insulate over top
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I’m not sure what would be involved to effectively accomplish it on your scale; but have you thought of a HERMS coil running through your brew kettle? This would remove the direct fire requirement from your still and place it on the water bath the herms runs through (which is already heated). There would be no chance of scorching the mash with the water exchanging the heat. Throw rocks, I’m going to be dealing with this as well on a 220Gal still; herms was my cheapest/easiest way forward.
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Bravo, I would be very interested in how this turns out for you. Could you send me your final build and results when/if you go this route?
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Connor, I’d be happy to. But If you’re waiting on me it’s going to be a minute; I’m just in the planning phases. But I’ll brainstorm it off the top of my head if you’ll play along. (Not insulting anyone’s inteligence on HERMS; just annotating everything to visualize the details.)
Beer runs out of the still to a pump, out to a HERMS coil (Basically a worm used for heating) in your brew kettle with a boiling water bath. Beer then departs the HERMS heading back to your still after exchaning heat with the boiling water in the BK.
Fittings required would be two on your still, two on your BK, and however you connect your HERMS coil inside. I know that tri-clamps are the most popular; but I’ll probably rely on stainless camlocks, NTP connections, and compression fittings for the coil/BK (my BK will be stainless).
I think the two main worries on this technique would be:
-Whether or not your pump can handle the beer mixture
-Whether or not you can get enough surface area on the HERMS coil (diameter and lengeth of the pipe) to exchange enough heat for it to bring your beer to temp in a reasonable amount of time.?
Depending on the still you could run your HERMS coil into it and only circulate the boiling water alleviating the pump issue. I think this method would be a less efficient concept though.
Most distillers could probably work this up for experimentation with your current equipment (shot in the dark) for the cost of the HERMS coil and fittings. A counterflow “chiller” would work better but I’ve never seen one large enough for the application. You’d also need two pumps.
Here’s a video of a tri-clamp HERMS home brewery (not mine) for reference. I hope this helps you or someone else out. Like I said, throw rocks. I’m the new guy here.
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Are you trying to distill on the grain or just ferment on the grain? If you’re just fermenting on the grain you could run it through a false bottom as somebody mentioned. Distilling on the grain will reduce the capacity of your still considerably (grains take up room) so keep that in mind. Personally, I’d just filter it before you distill as it will save room, reduce any scorching (we’re direct fire and haven’t had problems yet), and it makes the still a lot easier to clean out.
but yeah, love the still. best of luck.
noah
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I might be able to help you with the seam jacket problem. On the bottom of the curved surface you need what is called half tubes not a simple jacket.
Call if you need help.
515-559-4879
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I am a complete novice on the subject, but I’m going to interject a thought here. I’ve been researching various stills and I’ve kept finding pictures of alembic-style stills with what looks like a thumper/doubler. Looking closer, I notice that some of these thumpers are elevated, with a drain tube that goes back into the main pot of the still. I couldn’t figure out why you would want to empty your thumper into your main pot, but then I found this website:
http://www.countryfarm-lifestyles.com/moonshine.html
Take a look at plate 270. In this diagram, the main still vents into what they call a relay barrel, which has a tube coming off of it that drains back into the still. This is to allow the still to “puke” into the relay barrel and that puke can then safely drain back into the still. The outlet of the relay barrel then heads to the thumper and from there to the condenser.
I would say that all of these preventative measures are going to be your best bet, so steam-jacket your still and put an agitator in place, if you can. If you’re still worried about puking after that, a relay barrel might help.
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Most pot stills total have a wash down plate to prevent puking. Even most continuous stills. As they will puke big time. But if a small operator with say a hoga still had trouble puking, I would had one in a heartbeat. Also one function not talked about a lot would be the relay barrel will up proof some. You could on a small operation, use that barrel, and run a coil through it and pump beer through it and use it as both a beer heater and deplegmator.
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