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Ranges of Cuts
I know that as I get into this flavor will guide me but as a noob I plan to use temperature to help. I’ve seen various things on here that pot still run cuts are 80-91 C for heads, 91-95 for hearts, 95-97 for tails…then I’ll see 76-78 heads, 79-82 hearts, 82-95 tails. So that’s a big variation. Does it vary on reflux vs pot heads as far as cuts? I’m trying to get a rough idea template first then let experience guide me
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23 Replies
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Your better off searching for “kiwis guide to cuts”Taste is a much better tool to use.Temp can be useful for tails on a reflux run.Generally unless you have a recipe that you’ve done multiple times with a very fixed set of parameters stick to taste” you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can’t always wipe your friends off on your saddle” sage advice from Kinky Friedman
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Temp is NOT something to go by at all. Start by learning how to operate your still. Next learn how to judge your cuts. If you don’t know how, ask. This is NOT a shitty reply, it’s just an honest reply.In order to get proper help we need to know what you’re making and exactly what still you’re using. How you’re operating it makes a big difference too.4″ VM Build
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I use temperature to help, temperatures recorded by me on numerous previous runs.To be even slightly useful, temperatures used by other distillers have to be from running the same wash in the same type of still with the thermometer in the same position.
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I’ve read kiwis guide it is helpful. I haven’t made an edible run yet, just cleaning runs on the new still. I paid attention to temp and my refractometer readings just to see what was happening. and for starters i’ll strip and spirit run all the time to be consistent. One thing is some people tend to toss foreshots during the stripping run and some on spirit run. does that matter?And for the most part I’ll stabilize spirit run wines to 40% abv just to be consistent
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It’s a waste of time doing cuts by temperature . There are just so many variables that it doesn’t work . And yes, temps on a reflux still will be totally different to temps on a Pot still . The type of reflux still will also make a dramatic difference . On my reflux still there is barely 0.1° between my heads cut and when I taste tails starting to sneak in . On a Pot still , the ABV in the boiler will affect the temp from run to run . Where you make cuts on say a Rum will be different to how you might do cuts on a Whiskey .I get it that newbs are unsure and looking for numbers to guide them but it never ever helps and is actually a hindrance/The reality is , the sooner you start using your senses , the better at it you will become . At the end of the day , you will be drinking it . As you sniff it and taste it while drinking , your nose and tastebuds will go Woow , that is nice or what the, that is horrible . So if you use your nose and tastebuds to do the cuts and you like it , then theres a good chance when it comes to drinking it , that you will enjoy it . BTW I’ve never met a thermometer that drinks .Edit :regarding Foreshots cuts , IMO it doesn’t matter . Some like to do them on every stripping run . There choice .On a run in a reflux still my still foes a better job at removing them than I could on a stripping run .On my pot still , I figure , I’m not going to drink the heads cut and by then the fores are gone anyway .My recommended goto .wiki/index.ph … ion_Theory
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Kiwistiller’s guide is great for neutral, but not so much for flavored products.I don’t see the point of removing a foreshot from a spirit run unless you need extra cleaning fluid or firestarter. The first jar is never going to make the cut anyway.The desirability of stopping stripping above or below 40% Low Wines depends on what you are making.
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Like Chris said , if you are doing a Rum or whiskey , you will normally be stripping down to way below 40% ABV in your Low wines ….usually around 30% or a bit lower . ( usually by this stage the stuff coming off the still is down to 1-2% ABV …. Basically water . Some like to only collect Low wines for a Neutral down to about 40%abv. ( about 20-25% abv coming off the still ) I personally go lower as I let my reflux still deal with tails separation . Again , it does a better job than my Pot still does during stripping .Also take a look at this topic on doing cuts and blending jars . viewtopic.php?p=7500094#p7500094My recommended goto .wiki/index.ph … ion_Theory
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Interesting. good feedback. Whatever you don’t keep int he product (say most of the heads and tails) you save for future runs right? I assume you keep it for the next similar run. Like let say i do a few batches for a whiskey. What unusable low wines I save from that I wouldn’t necessarily keep for my “corn vodka” recipe right? I’d keep that for the next whiskey, for similar flavoring right?
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oh that’s a good tip for the pipe method
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Again, the answer depends on what you are making and what type of still you are running. Recycling feints from making neutral with a pot still needs extra trickery to be really successful.Recycling feints from corn likker with a pot still can work and I have some very nice 8 year old, but there is no way I’m going to try and talk a newbie through that process just because one asked. Use the Google Search function.
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hmm ok. i just watched StillIt’s video on the all-feints run and i think i’ll do that after i distill up a bunch of random things for fun.
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Thermometers don’t have taste buds or a sense of smell, its that simple.The sooner you start trying to do it the right way the sooner you will learn to be good at it.
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Also, don’t get confused with all feints from a pot still vs all feints from a reflux out fit. The pot will render feints that have plenty of good alcohol and definitely worth the additional recovery squeeze from the reflux column. Trying to squeeze feints produced from a proper vodka maker ( or even a 3 or 4 plate column) is in my opinion not really worth the squeeze unless you are at least running de-tuned.The reflux columns do such a good job of squeezing out the last bit of good alcohol that there really is not much remaining that is worth the effort / resources. It’s just stinky. Best to spend one’s time keeping one’s fermentation buckets working off finished beer and you’ll not have to settle for the finished distillate that will never be your best batch.Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
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Also, don’t get confused with all feints from a pot still vs all feints from a reflux out fit. The pot will render feints that have plenty of good alcohol and definitely worth the additional recovery squeeze from the reflux column. Trying to squeeze feints produced from a proper vodka maker ( or even a 3 or 4 plate column) is in my opinion not really worth the squeeze unless you are at least running de-tuned.The reflux columns do such a good job of squeezing out the last bit of good alcohol that there really is not much remaining that is worth the effort / resources. It’s just stinky. Best to spend one’s time keeping one’s fermentation buckets working off finished beer and you’ll not have to settle for the finished distillate that will never be your best batch.I agree with this with one exception on reflux feints. If you make tight cuts you may want to save the questionable jars on either side of the keepers. But the first and last couple jars are a definite no in my opinion.For New and Novice DistillersHow to Organize and Manage ForumPosting Photos
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good tips. thanks. I’ll have to just wing it then. I don’t know really what to be tasting other than “thats good” or “that’s not good” lol
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If you are making a sugar wash neutral, that is how it is done.
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i never drink neutrals. i’ll be making bourbons, maybe rums and brandy for fun too
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In that case, some of the jars that taste nasty on their own are needed in the heart cut to capture the flavors of the grains. Make up samples of potential blends to taste rather than trying to guess what an individual jar may do for the final cut.
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Just one little thing about tails: with a pot still the transition from, “mmmm that’s interesting” to, “ain’t no way that’s going in my mouth” can take three or four jars sometimes. When you’re starting out it’s hard to know what tails tastes like; people describe what they experience but often it doesn’t match what you’re experiencing. But one smell generally doesn’t lie, and that’s the smell of the backset or stillage from a spirit run. If that stink is in a jar you’re onto a bad thing. I’m mostly talking about rum here, where the hearts-tails transition throws up these sweet, slightly grassy jars that are desirable to me but foreshadow the bad shit around the corner.It’s a bit fiddly at times, but that blending tip of Chris’s is a good one.I can’t sing, but I sing.
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I think learning to id the nail varnish smell on the fores takes a while, i did 6 or 7 runs before my sense of smell could pick that up, then the false sweetness that comes off the heads, and accepting the fact you gotta chuck it.And not to be greedy.
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Don’t work along the line jar by jar when starting.Smell the very middle jar of the line up, then go to the very end jar at the tail end and smell it, does it smell musty, wet mold carpet, wet cardboard or dog? Go the the very first jar , take a good smell, thinners? Nail polish? These are your beginners reference points.The change in smell going through every individual jar side by side can be a bit to subtle for beginners.If you get the hang of that try moving along the line doing every 3rd or 4th jar, again the difference should stand out more than doing each jar side by side.There is no rush, walk away and come back in a hour with a fresh nose.And use small jars , lots of them when learning.
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IV been venturing into more heads and tails for certain things. Agree lots of hidden aged flavors in their. But never thought of blending my cuts for an improvement in the 2 jars. I drink so much now,on the back of my license it’s a list of organs I need.
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Heads and tails are what is left over after you have chosen your heart cut, so you can’t actually put ‘early heads’ into your hearts, because as soon as you do, that jar is hearts. Just because it tasted a bit nasty on its own doesn’t make a jar heads or tails and it might be needed to capture the flavors from the grain/fruit/whatever. That’s why I taste sample blends rather than individual jars, starting with a blend of all of the inoffensive jars in the middle, then alternately adding to the sample from the jars at either end, working my way out until I find the jars that are one too far.
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