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Grain separator with spinning cycle
Okay this might be off the wall but always good to theorize.
I read in a post previous of this a guy saying ” the spin cycle on an old washing machine wont do for this”
Now I think it could work for what I’m doing, max 250 Gal of mash a week.
I’m having horrendous issues with our corn spirit and Bourbon mash. That being we don’t have an agitator on our still, even though its a jacketed electric kettle I still get clumping mash and grain stuck on the inside.
We are looking at buying an agitator since there is already a port for it on the still, but also heating that mass with grains still takes some time as opposed to the liquid.
Anybody have experience with using a old washing machine? I mean could it be that bad of an idea??
Our equipment is primitive as of now. I grow unstable
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22 Replies
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Are you doing a full 250G batch each time or smaller batches that total 250G per week?
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sorry devils in the details.
I would have two Mash tuns/Open top fermenters, each one we do about 125 gal each
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Washing machine could work in theory. You might be better off getting some filter bags/false bottom and separating that way. Maybe shoot an email to Kings County in Brooklyn, NY. They’ve gotten by for awhile stilling off the grain by separating the liquid with cheesecloth after fermentation. I don’t think they grind to flour though, I think they just boil the cracked corn and add malt. For the first few years (I think they have large Forsyth stills now) they use stills with elements and no agitator.
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Wow will surely check into that, even just running a sample to get a SG reading cheesecloth blocks up. But nobody knows everything, I’ll see what they have to say
I would love to have a large surface area SS perforated screen ( 4’x4′ ) with a bin catching liquid underneath
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Try an open top IBC with a screen over the top. That should work.
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I saw an online video of a guy using a washing machine to make beer, mashing and lautering. It worked great but that was with crushed barley that has plenty of husk
I have had a couple of goes with crushed rye but it just didn’t work. The rye packed itself against the sides of the bowl and wouldn’t let any wort through after a few seconds.
Then tried to use it as a centrifuge and hoped the solids would pack against the sides and leave the liquid towards the centre where I could pump it out or let it run over the rim. Was starting to work when suddenly the liquid all went to one side and the whole machine did a 180 deg with a crash and that was the end of the machine and the experiment.
I assume the problem with a washing machine is the water is normally reasonably stable within the clothes. It is not designed to spin free water at high speed.
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I have a reasonable source of mixers that I can help get you lined out with one. Sugarlands just got one fitted to a Artisan Still Design 30 gallon. It attached to a 2″ triclover in the top. It is air driven and he has been able to run a 51% rye with it.
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I saw an online video of a guy using a washing machine to make beer, mashing and lautering. It worked great but that was with crushed barley that has plenty of husk
I have had a couple of goes with crushed rye but it just didn’t work. The rye packed itself against the sides of the bowl and wouldn’t let any wort through after a few seconds.
Then tried to use it as a centrifuge and hoped the solids would pack against the sides and leave the liquid towards the centre where I could pump it out or let it run over the rim. Was starting to work when suddenly the liquid all went to one side and the whole machine did a 180 deg with a crash and that was the end of the machine and the experiment.
I assume the problem with a washing machine is the water is normally reasonably stable within the clothes. It is not designed to spin free water at high speed.
Really good to know, I’m finding out too unlike beer that Bourbon mashes are just near impossible to lauter with the Corn ratios. From what I read about your posts Rye isn’t fun either.
I would really like to try it, maybe a old washing machine will show up soon… like an industrial one from a laundrymat.
Thing is if we get an agitator for our still I think it could eliminate the need to spate liquid from grain, but still separation would be nice.
I have a reasonable source of mixers that I can help get you lined out with one. Sugarlands just got one fitted to a Artisan Still Design 30 gallon. It attached to a 2″ triclover in the top. It is air driven and he has been able to run a 51% rye with it.
I have a call into our Carl still rep now to see what he has for us, Also getting in touch with the people from Dynamix to see what they recommend, cause we will need one for our still and mash tun.
Also we are definitely looking for electric, we prefer not to have a air compressor going at our place.
Does your source have electric?
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We found that sun screen fabric is a great alternative for ‘filter bags’ if you are manually screening the grains. You can get it in the garden section of Lowe’s/Home Depot. We sewed bags out of this and pump our wash through it before the still. We give it a gentle squeeze, recover liquid, and place the grains in totes. A Russell Finex it isn’t but it is better than waste or scorching in the still.
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Very innovative! I suspect trampoline material would be good, too!
Any problems with running a hot mash in the sun screen fabric?
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I thought about the washing machine option but never took the dive. We have a pneumatic press that presses our grain into a modified washing machine basket. It works well for small batches, but is a massive bottleneck for us (we do 2000+ gallons of mash per weekend at the moment). At 250 gal a week, you might consider a similar press. If you can’t find the proper cylinder, I assume a screw press with a screen would work just as well.
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Yeah I have seen very small pneumatic presses for home wine making and such.
Got me thinking though it could be the way to go, but for large bathes you would need something like a bladder press they use in wineries.
You could do several tons at a time and from what I have done with them the grape must comes out practically dry, but these things are probably more than a Russel Finex
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I think the most efficient way would be the same way a centrifugal juicer works (without the cutting blades of course).
Grain gets dropped into the middle of a spinning, angled screen which separates the liquid as the forces push the grain up the sides and into the hopper.
I think the major problem would be the speeds necessary to dry the grain to the same extent my juicer does would mean absolute catastrophic failure in case something went wrong. I think my home juicer spins at 13,000 RPM–which wouldn’t be much of a problem with a few grams/ounces of pulp inside. However, those speeds with ~1-2 pounds of grain at any one moment would be like a bomb going off.
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I have been trialing that same type of juicer.
The blades chop the mash up too fine and quite a bit ends up in the liquid as flour, but the solid component is quite dry = great
I took the cutting blades off by removing 3 or 4 screws then the mash is not chopped up so finely, but the problem is that without blades the solids don’t start spinning and so don’t produce any centrifugal force to thrust the liquid through the sloping filter screen. The mash just slides up the slope and is still wet when it goes over the top.
I plan to replace the blades with blunt fins that will get the mash spinning before it gets to the filter screen. Balancing could be a problem.
If that works I will build a bigger one possibly with the remains of washing machine mentioned above
However, those speeds with ~1-2 pounds of grain at any one moment would be like a bomb going off.
This is a type of self cleaning centrifugal filter. It is designed to prevent any buildup of solids so it should never?? be able to build up 1-2 pounds.
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This is a type of self cleaning centrifugal filter. It is designed to prevent any buildup of solids so it should never?? be able to build up 1-2 pounds.
My juicer is designed to be self “cleaning” but occasionally something small sticks to the screen. When this happens it goes from a smooth, steady sound to a very loud vibration until the jam clears itself.
Check out this calculator to see the forces involved at those speeds. 1 gram traveling in a 6″ radius at 13,000 rpm has an awful lot of power to it. I have yet to take a college physics class, so I’ll leave that to the more experienced.
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My juicer has a 4 inch radius. 1 gram out of balance at 13,000 rpm is equivalent to 190 Kg stationary weight on one side according to that calculator–wow.
Please check my calculations anyone.
That amount of centrifugal force explains why this type of filter works so well
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I have seen pictures of the aftermath of a modified washing machine gone wrong…when it went out of balance it sprayed the room with spent grain before he could pull the plug.
Link http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4581
Lessons would be, bolt it to the floor, have a safety plan…
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Looks like when the hose came off my mash pump…
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More like when the hose continually comes off the mash pump …
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ezq3XYGIg&list=PLVo5HAi17a4gTR6qpAVLK4x_mfMw_Sqsg&index=1
12 part series on using a modified washing machine.
I’ve also been keeping my eye peeled [hate that phrase] for an industrial salad spinner on a local auction site. I missed one that closed after my family and I left for vacation.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9ezq3XYGIg&list=PLVo5HAi17a4gTR6qpAVLK4x_mfMw_Sqsg&index=1
12 part series on using a modified washing machine.
I’ve also been keeping my eye peeled [hate that phrase] for an industrial salad spinner on a local auction site. I missed one that closed after my family and I left for vacation.
VARocketry, I just saw this thread and was going to post that but you beat me to it! LOL!
I still say in small volume it would work but unless you’re going to fill it 20-30# at a time, that could be quite the time consumer.
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And check out what happens when it goes pear shaped:
http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4581&p=67042
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