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Distilling without electricity or running water
So I love dystopian novels, movies, etc… when I’m bored I like to come up with ways I’d distill in a situation in the end of the world with no electricity or running water… call it a fun hypothetical mental exercise.The backwoods moonshiner option, running on fire with the worm and tub is an option if you have running water near by. You could also manually bail the water.
The alquitar on fire is an option if you have water but its not running, but you’ll be bailing water in and out of the coolant reservoir
Another lesser known option in the US is the armagnac continous stills used by the traveling distillers of France.These are run off fire, but they use the wine/beer as the cooling medium. But they are laden with heads and require a long aging period to off gas all those volatiles.
Lately ive been thinking about a fire driven steam boiler to basically feed a coffey/patent still design.
The fire will boil water to create steam, steam is injected into the bottom of the stripping column, the alcohol vapor is carried over to the spirit column where it can be drawn off at different levels so you can take of your product at the desired proof/flavors.I like this idea because running on fire (especially wood) is some serious skill, you could very easily scortch your wine/beer so boiling water for steam is a safer option, also if you’re using the wine/beer as your cooling medium you don’t need water (minimal amountfor the steam boiler) . The setup could be put on a trailer and you could take your operation on the road and sell your services and distill for others.What you you do?(Again this is all hypothetical to generate a good conversation)There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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29 Replies
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I’ve given this some thought too.I love the outdoors, wild food, foraging and the whole idea of off grid living etc. So it appeals to me. If I was setting up a still away from water and power, first thing would be to build an efficient wood fired draught setup controlled with baffles so I could send heat to my cooking fire, still or living space independently. A well built, well baffled stone fire place is as easy to control as a wood burning stove.For cooling, if there was no possible access to running water, I’d have to look at air cooling first.A long length of tube with wet cloth draped over it, will knock down heat really well even with no perceptible wind on a cool day (And it’s always cool in Wales!)I’d have a still built up on top of a high furnace, with a high riser, and a very long condenser with a gentle fall to ground level, the entire length draped with cloth the end of which would be hanging in a water trough. I can picture it, but it might not be clear from my explanation.Make Booze, not War!
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Thanks for commenting That’s clever, I hadn’t quite thought of that.So you’d use hot flue gas to the heat the boiler, not direct flame?Sometime the simplest shit is the most effective… I didn’t even consider air coil but it makes perfect sense.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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I gravity feed my condensers from a bucket hung low enough for me to fill with another bucket. Supply the condenser water using the bottom hose tail and letting it overflow from the top. Flow control is a Crescent spanner pinching the water line.
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These rocket stoves I see all over the inter weeb might make an interesting fire box if the rocket stove passed up through the boiler. they are pretty efficient stoves and can be set up to self feed fuel.”What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance”Marcus AureliusI’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
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Gravity feed is a good idea as well.Also makes me think if you have a body of water nearby, you could use a ram pump to get water to your operating area.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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Rocket stoves are a great idea. Super efficient, they can basically run on twigs and sticks. Obviously, you’d need a much larger one if you’re trying to heat any volume of liquid but still a solid concept.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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If the flue of a rocket stove went through the boiler, there would be some serious burn on happening above the wash, the same as happens when a pot is shrouded.
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It’s hard for me to imagine no “running water” so much damn water around here I’d make me some “running water.” Just plop a pipe in an active drainage. With that, make a wood fired steam injection setup..13.5g/50L keg modular 3″ pot/VM copper&stainless w/offset gin head26g 4″ stripping still5500watts of fury
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Yeah, if we were to loose power where I live in AZ, we’d would be out of water in just a few weeks.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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I guess this would technically fit here…I was recently daydreaming about what it would take to make an off grid electric still. I came up with roughly $1,000 of more for the parts. Lithium batteries with enough capacity to do a single run, with reserve. For me, that means roughly 18kWhrs, or 1,500 Amp hours for 12V batteries. Then you need BMS for charging, an inverter, and solar panels. The size of the solar panel would be the limiting factor which determines how often you could run. Once a week would be more than sufficient for me.It’s not practical for me in my current situation, but if I were setting up a shed in a remote location that got decent sunlight, I’d definitely consider itLearn from the past, live in the present, change the future.
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Solid plan. With a water small pump and big enough water reservoir you could do a run and just naturally let the water come back down.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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My main goal to have a Continuous Stripper was due to extended drought periods we’d been having .I was convinced that the incoming Beer alone would be enough to condense the Stripped Beer . I dod manage to get it to work on and off but chasing the critical Beer Feed was almost impossible . It needs an Auxiliary Condenser to act as a buffer .Fluctuations in Power made it really hard . A Coffey still would be even harder to control with wood fire and would still require auxiliary coolant .My recommended goto .wiki/index.ph … ion_Theory
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I’d ditch the lithium in favour of older tech like SLA. Lithium is great when you want to move your batteries around but at home you (normally) have more space and don’t care about weight.If you were using a steam stripper there are also sand / clay batteries for directly storing heat which could potentially be used for steam generation. If you want to get creative.”I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway” – JimboA little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
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I think I have a way to solve for this… so, I’ve been studying various continous designs and talking to a lot of people that have experience with continuous stills, the common problem with designs that reboil the bottoms for steam is that they all have pressure problems. I think the way to solve that is a separate heating system that is unaffected by the feed rate. Ie. A separate steam boiler. The beer feed rate itself will only control the abv of the distillate coming off the still.What I’m thinking is using the reservoir gravity feed system of the armagnac still, with the beer heating system of a coffey/patent. In a liquid management column. I’ll draw out what I’m thinking tomorrow.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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This thread has generated some great conversation Bolverk, thanks for starting it off. Yes I’d use a multi directional flue for heating, so it can be quite carefully controlled.Amazing what you can do with piles of stones, and mud. If you haven’t seen the show “Alone” take a look at some of the episodes for inspiration, based on what you said I think you’ll like it And I think air cooling is overlooked, I built a small air cooled setup for making gin in the kitchen and it’s reliable, safe and runs as well as a water cooled still.Make Booze, not War!
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Thanks, yeah it has!I have seen the show, I’m a fan.That makes sense. My concern with single pot still distillation is the need for a second distillation and the amount of time and resources involved. I’ve never really attempted the “low and slow” method for a single pass… can you make a drinkable product this way?Another option would be a to add in a thumper (or multiple) to increase the proof. This drawing from the book The Distiller shows basically a double thumper/retort driven on steam. This could be effective but from a resources stand point it would take a lot of wood to maintain a fire to run this kind of setup.
There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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I’ve also been curious about using a solar reflector to heat a boiler. I know NZChris has experimented with that, don’t know if anyone else here has.Learn from the past, live in the present, change the future.
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Here’s what I was thinking….Forgive the crude drawing, I know it’s missing things, this is just to give an overall idea.
The reservoir at the top of the beer column would gravity feed into a condenser/HX at the top of the spirit column and slowly work its way in and out of the the column creating the temperature gradient needed to condense and pull product off at different points. The low wines that collect at the bottom of the spirit column would need to be manually returned to the beer well/reservoir to be re-run. After the beer makes it’s way through the spirit column it would be dropped into the top of the beer column where it would be stripped by cascading through perf plates.The bottoms drain in my pic needs some sort of liquid lock but it was hard to draw without the drawing getting too convoluted. The idea is that there is an HX for a secondary gravity feed for water that would be replacing the water in the steam boiler.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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Cool idea, but I gotta imagine the sun tracking on that has got to be a huge pain in the ass?There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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I’ve been thinking about this subject for some time before this thread. I have an unlimited supply of firewood. I use steam injection.I also have a hot tub that I would like to heat in the winter time directly steam injection, or indirectly with a condenserThe advantage of having both is that I would only need to admit to one activity (heating the tub) if the smoke regulators come to visit. I was thinking about a using a 55 gallon steel barrel for burn chamber. Then a 15 gallon keg with a corny keg through the center for a flue that would rest on the steel barrel.
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Oh, that is very clever. It reminds me of a Kelly kettle.I’m in agreement on the steam thing, it think it’s probably the best way to go to prevent scorching.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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Ha that’s exactly what came into my head when I saw it! A giant Kelly kettle! I’ve got an Mkettle and I love it.Make Booze, not War!
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Ha! In all reality its really smart, you are probably close doubling your heated surface area, and making it a sealed vessel for steam is just brilliant.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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I don’t recall where I found this picture, but something along these lines may be the simplest option.
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There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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Solar is at least three worthwhile topics.A heliostat can aim a mirror.Panels can be used with batteries and converters, plus they can be connected directly to elements without all the expensive stuff needed to store and convert.
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We have just had the old 3kw solar system (which was next to useless) replaced with an 8kw one .Here are some pics of production . This is the best one I could find out of the 53 days it’s been installed .You can still see where a couple of clouds come across but it is the most consistent.
These are the next best ones . Again , not bad , but not perfect either . .
For the rest of the time , it’s usually all jaggered and looks more like this .
My point is , even though my solar panels have a maximum capacity of 8kw , its a bell curve and I may have seen it reach that on maybe 3 days out of 53 for about 15min .
The rest of the time it is typically around 5-6kw . Also notice how the clouds significantly effects production . Now , Chris is right that you can string a bunch of panels in series and get several hundred volts to run a “typical” element .( I’m kinda spewing I didn’t keep the old panels and put them on the shed roof , they still worked but had an insulation breakdown issue that the old inverter detected and wouldn’t run )Or maybe he has access to some special low voltage elements that can run off a bunch of parallel connected panels , but , unless you pick the perfect sunny day with no expected cloud cover , without some battery to fill in the gaps , I would expect a fair degree of smearing ….. especially on a spirit run .Regardless, there is a lot of energy in sunshine . I believe it is something like 1kw per square meter . Which kinda makes sense that with solar panels only being 20-25% efficient , a typical sized roof panel is making 200-300watts .I also agree with Chris that a tracking system makes better use of the sun . My fixed solar system clearly shows the bell curve of power as the sun moves from east to west aver the panels . If they could trac the sun , there would be a much more consistent output throughout the day .Alas . a Cyclone rated Tracker for my eighteen panels will have to wait for another lifetime.My recommended goto .wiki/index.ph … ion_Theory
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If you are running a simple pot still, passing clouds will interfere with production, but that doesn’t cause smearing, it just takes longer and is a PITA if you are in a hurry to get it done and go to the pub.We use 12V water heater elements directly connected to second hand solar panels to heat hot water cylinders off grid at the farm. Google finds them on the first page of results.
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True true .Yes , that makes a lot of sense Chris . So long as the maximum isn’t more power than you need , then it isn’t going to smear , just take longer . And I’m guessing in an appoloclyptic future , if it takes a few days rather than one , well , what else were tiu gonna do anyway. As for the 12v elements , thanks for that I prefer not to google everything before posting as it can become easy to sound like you know everything . But , Just googled it and as you say , first page , there they are . Interestingly most are around 300w and a few are 600w so might need a few to do a big stripping run but should be great for a spirit run . I guess easy to switch in/out extra elements or panels for more or less power . Hee hee looking at that bell curve of energy , would almost do a natural progression of slowly increasing power over Fore shots , heads and hearts . ….. although initial boiler heat-up might be an issue …. Hmmm a small fire in the pre dawn hours before sunrise .My recommended goto .wiki/index.ph … ion_Theory
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If using a couple of separate solar panels, you could mount them on stands to give yourself some power control. Point them both at the rising sun in the morning, then turn one away enough to prevent smearing when it starts producing. Once producing, you would only have to turn the panels maybe once an hour. Ammeters on the backs of the panels would be useful when aiming them.
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