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Carter Head and the Bountiful Botanical Basket
I have a question for those who use a Carter Head with basket for their gin…The head that came with my still is 4″ diameter and 300mm length (which seems about normal) but has a VERY short basket in it. The basket is only 100mm long and sits between the inlet and outlet ports. This means its total capacity is very limited (roughly 0.6l) and it can’t hold the suggested amount of botanicals from most recipes (with 40l of neutral spirit in the boiler) – at least not without really packing them in and having most/all the juniper in the boiler itself. The basket also only has holes at the base and none up the sides – but most others I have seen have holes on the sides too.(also, weirdly, the head has a sight glass in the middle – where most I have seen have it much lower down and you can see the inlet port and the base of the basket – That doesn’t worry me but is just odd)Anyway – I was looking at getting another basket (longer, for more capacity, and with holes on the sides) but the few I have seen appear to be >200mm (often 220mm). I’ve seen those listed as having a 1.5l volume.With the way things are currently set up this would mean they’d be sitting on the bottom of the main chamber of my head, well below the inlet port (Which doesn’t seem like a good idea). Alternatively I could install a spacer of some sort and lift it up so the top of the basket is above the top of the outlet port (would vapor just go around it and out the port without really picking up flavour from the botanicals?)In most photos I’ve seen, of other setups, the bottom of the basket is visible in the sight glass (obviously not possible in mine because of the weird position of the sight glass)… this would suggest that (assuming a 300mm head and 220mm basket) the basket must come up above the outlet port.Can you please tell me how yours is set up? what size is your head/basket? does the top of your basket sit above or below the outlet port? does your basket have holes in the sides or only the base?Thanks(Attached a poorly drawn, and definitely not to scale, image to try to help explain the above better)
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29 Replies
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IMHO those baskets are toys built by companies with little experience in gin distillation and are far too small and narrow for anything except a few peels. Mine is far larger and wider in relation to the boiler, giving plenty of room for botanicals and low vapour speed through them.
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That’s good, and I’m happy for you… But any chance you could give details of yours?
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I make stuff out of whatever is handy or cheap at the time. It isn’t something that would clamp onto your still. The design is based on the Carter Head at Bombay, not photos of cheap junk sold on the net.I hardly ever use it, maybe only every other year when I do a Bombay style, it’s been nearly two years since I ran with it. Most of my gin is done with everything in the boiler.
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i have one of those, it’s not really a carter head, just a posh botanical basket.mine is a 4″ x 300mm long ,with 2 x 2′ outlets, with 200mm baskets that have mesh everywhere.
only used it 2/3 times, i do the same as Nzchris, everything in a small dedicated gin boiler.the concept of running low wines through botanical basket never really enthused me either.there is fores/heads/hearts/tails to contend with, changing baskets, in and out of reflux etc etc.a lot of us make really good neutral from the low wines, then run the neutral with the botanicals.then there isn’t any fores/heads/tails to worry aboutif you really want to use yours, maybe look at a hop spider that might fit inside?
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Thanks Howie. Looks like yours is similar to a lot of what I have seen. Can you please confirm for me if the top of the basket in yours comes up above the top of the (upper) outlet.I know that there are a number of different ways to produce gin and using one of these is only one of them. We do also use other methods as well including some/all botanicals in the boiler, botanicals in a basket in column of alembic, etc. I’m not looking for a “this is the best way to do it” (after all, this hobby is about experimenting, learning, and finding what produces what you like to drink ) but instead just looking for some detail on the the setup of these units which other people have – as I said, we’ve found our basket to be far too small so I was looking to get a larger, and more perforated, one for the times when we do use it. (BTW – I mistakenly mentioned low wines in the original post (brain not fully functional due to the flu)… we do infact double distill to get a nice clean neutral first and then run that back through again to make gin)Good suggestion to look at the hop spiders though – there might be something there which is a bit larger than our 100mm one but not as long as the others. Thanks
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There are some screened bins the use for smoking at AliExpress that would fit your 4″. Popping open the top of a Carter head takes but a second to install your basket. There are too many nice things that boiling ruin not to use your Carter head.TōtōSi vis pacem, para bellum
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Have you got any links to that info?
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Yeah. Tumeric flowers,Jamaica,pumpkin flowers, coconut flower,skin of a mango,tamarindo fruit which would over power being boiled. For you, chicken that has been marinaded in a strong mole. Things that offer a scent rather than flavor. That fat from the chicken doesn’t need to fall back into the boiler.TōtōSi vis pacem, para bellum
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Thanks for the ingredient ideas.If any ingredient is overpowering you can use less of it next time.AFAIK Meszcal de Pechuga is made with the bird suspended in the boiler, not in an offset Carter Head.
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that is one reason i kept the basket, in case i ever do any floral stuff.apparently it’s better to extract these flavours with high ABV vapour.but your remark “boiling ruins too many things” was too general, and needed some clarification.
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Thanks Howie. Looks like yours is similar to a lot of what I have seen. Can you please confirm for me if the top of the basket in yours comes up above the top of the (upper) outlet.I know that there are a number of different ways to produce gin and using one of these is only one of them. We do also use other methods as well including some/all botanicals in the boiler, botanicals in a basket in column of alembic, etc. I’m not looking for a “this is the best way to do it” (after all, this hobby is about experimenting, learning, and finding what produces what you like to drink ) but instead just looking for some detail on the the setup of these units which other people have – as I said, we’ve found our basket to be far too small so I was looking to get a larger, and more perforated, one for the times when we do use it. (BTW – I mistakenly mentioned low wines in the original post (brain not fully functional due to the flu)… we do infact double distill to get a nice clean neutral first and then run that back through again to make gin)Good suggestion to look at the hop spiders though – there might be something there which is a bit larger than our 100mm one but not as long as the others. Thanksgood to hear you double distill, i don’t understand why people would run low wines through a gin basket (too hard basket? )i had a chance to dust off my basket this morning.the mesh basket is indeed full mesh and the basket is completely cylindrical (ie it doesn’t taper at all)it also fits the main body fairly tightly, with a lip at the top, which means the vapour has to pass from beneath, through the botanicals and carry on.40L is a lot of gin in one run, i hope you like it:) 40l would probably use over 1 kg of botanicals? would you still need 2 x large baskets and change them during the run?i have attached a photo.the Distillex shop i bought it from (on our favourite chinese site) is “on hold’?i attached a couple of other links, maybe buy new baskets (if they fit), or bite the bullet and get the sexy copper one https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3287039 … ry_from%3Ahttps://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004 … ry_from%3A
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Ive never understood that either, I think its mainly a newbie thing , those that know no better. “too hard basket” describes it perfectly.For that matter why would you try to make gin in any form using that method?
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Really Chris? Have you used a similar gin head? Or just through your own decision making process decided that this is an inferior design and have decided to counsel all who will listen accordingly? For the record, the above type of offset gin head (notwithstanding dimensional differences in copcat versions) has made award winning spirits by multiple commercial operators. One operator specifically commenting how this particular apparatus is responsible for the lions share of his revenue stream.Just for added perspective…EDITHere is the actual commentary:” Was doing some math back from day 1 around product profitability, underlying cost structures, boring business crap.I present to you the single most profitable piece of equipment we’ve ever purchased:[ picture of apparatus here]That gin basket directly drove north of 24,900% return on investment (yes, you read that right, that’s 6 figures of profit). Look, it’s a little bit of an overstatement, but damn if we haven’t produced thousands of bottles through that little damn thing, 48 bottles at a time (yes, we make gin like we bake bread, fresh daily).”And from another who spends time here on HD:”While I don’t have the same numbers to calculate, I know it’s doing well by us. I was looking to upgrade to a larger version soonish. Between a couple gins and aquavit it’s helped us make a name for ourselves.”Yeah please note “48 bottles at a time” comment.Whether its for hobby use, commercial recipe development, or boutique production volumes, the devise is proven.Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
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Thanks for verifying, Larry. Even a short dive into how commercial distilleries infuse flavor into their gins reveals the lion’s share of botanicals are placed in the boiler with a much smaller percentage of delicate (destroyed by maceration) flavorings placed in the vapor path. How about a pic Chris?“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”- W.C. Fields My EZ Solder Shotgun My Steam Rig and Manometer
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I used this for inspiration, mine is a lot smaller.https://www.diffordsguide.com/producer/ … production
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The minimum required size should be easy to calculate.You know the volume of spirit you want to run, you know the weight of botanicals you want to use, so weigh out the botanicals and measure the volume. If it’s too much to fit in the basket that you are ordering or building, you have a problem.
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A great video for anyone who’s interested in gin and playing around. IV got a long way to go. I drink so much now,on the back of my license it’s a list of organs I need.
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A great video for anyone who’s interested in gin and playing around. IV got a long way to go. Maybe, ….. however, the copy of the article could stand a little editing. The two double cap plate defragnator chamber, and the two stills, ” named after Queen Victoria and Henry ” ( …her husbands name was Albert – there were Kings Henry but to the best of my knowledge none were know to be Queens… ) made me wonder if this spiel was normally shared after a tasting session
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Instead of looking for flaws, look for useful information that is applicable to you, your boiler and your neutral.
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I am not criticizing you or your gear Chris, but post up a picture if you want to discuss pros and cons.
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NivlacNZ based on some older posts on the ADI site it is seems that a basket size of 5% or greater of the boiler charge volume is recommended with consideration for low vapour speed to maximize extraction.
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That is way more volume than the 0.6l toy he was sold.
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Thanks for the constructive comments and advice from many (Pity some are very quick to run down others setups without seeing them or to tell them they’re doing it wrong because it’s not how they do it)Anyway… yes I know the basket that came with this particular still is too small for “all” of the botanicals for a 40l run – which is the whole reason why I am after a larger one and the purpose of my post was to ask about the dimensions and fit of those others have (in case I need to end up making some mods or even building it myself)From the photo Howie put up it looks like my suspicion was correct in that the top of the basket sits above the top of the upper outlet so that’s going to help me figure out my next steps BTW- I don’t intend to put all of the botanicals in there (sorry, probably should have made that clear at the start – that perhaps led to some confusion). Regardless of whether I am using this setup or my 10l alembic I put the majority of Juniper, Coriander, etc in the boiler but there are several other ingredients which I personally prefer the flavour that I get from vapor extraction (and I like to have a little of the Juniper in there too). Even with most of the bulky ingredients in the boiler the remainder is still more than my current basket can hold (without really packing it in, which doesn’t make sense to do because that’s not going to help with extraction)Thanks again everyone – I think my question has been answered so now I just need to find something which will do the trick (or tidy the garage a bit so I can find all the tools I need to build it)
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Yes, I was having a good chat to one of the commercial distillers at last years Gindulgence event (here in Christchurch, NZ) and she said that moving to using a setup which is almost identical to what I am using was the best thing they did – and they are producing some really good gins. I suspect they may have upgraded to something a little larger now because they were struggling to keep up with demand.I can only hope that one day I will fine tune my ingredients and process to get somewhere near the quality they are producing.
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Have a look at your local scrappies. They quite often have something that can be repurposed for distilling, especially in the copper bins.
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I am not criticizing you or your gear Chris, but post up a picture if you want to discuss pros and cons.You don’t need a picture to be able to understand that a Carter Head can be undersized, it’s just maths.While looking for an early drawing that I had also used in my build, I found a website selling ones that cost hundreds of dollars and only held 250g of juniper. Just in case anyone is impressed by their website, the photos showed them both assembled upside effing down.I found the drawing ok, but it was on Pinterest which I avoid using.
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OP, one of the fun aspects of gin recipe development is seeing how certain ingredients flavours develop based on technique… what ingredients are saved for the basket vs what goes in the boiler..or perhaps cold maceration before the boiler. Good call on looking at a new gin basket and it has not come up but the basket should have a bottom drain to allow you to collect the liquid in the bottom of the basket as this can be used in your final product as well.
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The oldest drawing I’ve seen didn’t show a drain valve or a sight glass. I don’t have either.If you insulate a Carter Head it should finish the run dry without any interference from you, all of the desirable VOCs having made it into the receiver.
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If you insulate a Carter Head it should finish the run dry without any interference from you, all of the desirable VOCs having made it into the receiver.[/quote]And what about the undesirables? I am really looking forward to seeing your system… I have read countless posts discussing the pros and cons of allowing or preventing these extracts returning to the boiler, and if or how they can be reprocessed or fractioned and used…. but your system carries all of them through? All of the oils and extracts? And leaves your carter head dry? No issues with over extraction or undesirables?
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