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Best condensate temperature
Not sure thus is the correct place for this, but..I’ve read tons on “rapid aging” and also on making cuts. One common theme between the two is “airing out” the condensate. In cuts, covering open jars with paper towel overnight up to couple days to allow the unwanted fractions to evaporate. In rapid aging using a microwave (or even heated ultrasonic bath), the product is heated up and the “bad” portion allowed to evaporate. (Yes, an oak tea is also brewed faster in the heated liquid, but as I recall many posts talked about removing more volatile portions)That made me think… should the condenser at the still be knocking the liquid temperature down to “room temp” at 70F /21C range… or… have it higher at 100-110F ? It seems to the inexperienced person, that a warm to mildly hot condensate would allow the unwanted, higher volatility portion to evaporate quickly and efficiently.Or am I nuts?
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24 Replies
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Bad stuff won’t flash off in fractions any more than it distills in fractions, so letting product flash off from middle jars that are already going to make the heart cut is just a waste of good product.What you’re suggesting might be helpful for making neutral, but you won’t catch me blowing off esters that I’ve gone to the trouble and expense of getting into the boiler for a spirit run of a flavoured product.
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May I suggest a small test.Take some very high proof neutral, consisting mainly of pure alcohol.Put it in an open jar and heat it up to the envisioned temperature.Then wait till half of the alcohol has evaporated.Not only the congeners are volatile, alcohol is volatile as well. It is more volatile when hot.
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Many, if not most people prefer to collect product as close to 60F as possible so that it can be tested with their spirit hydrometer without temp correction.With experience you will observe just how much evaporation occurs within your jars over the span of 2 days. It’s not insignificant. I don’t see the need to heat it or collect hot product. After you make your cuts, you can do any rapid aging tests you want. I just don’t see the need or benefit of doing anything fancy while collecting product.4″ VM Build
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I prefer it on the hotter side to lessen the water usage and my guilt of wasting waterDon’t be a dick
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That makes sense. I use a shotgun condenser. During a spirit run, even at a tiny trickle, the product exits approx 60F. I’m sure it depends on the type of product condenser, the condenser’s dimensions, the input water’s temp, etc…4″ VM Build
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I see the logic, but I think it’s one of those counterintuitive things that happens with distilling.If there was an advantage everyone with a too short liebig would be making better shine.
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Maybe they do I’ve moved into the NZChris camp and no longer air much of anything before blending. I loosely cap it as soon as collecting and blend as soon as I get time but I really don’t put much stock in rapid aging methods.A message to new membersWe want you to be safe and succeed so start hereMy Apple Brandy Recipe
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In my shed, the PC is oversized and the shine comes out 60-65’fWhen rubbing the liebig, the temp transition is right in the middle.As to letting hot distillate evaporate in the name of removing lighter spirits. Don’t even think about it. Too much gets lost as angels share and the leprechauns get short changed. I use 1 gal glass jugs with a wad of cotton cloth as a stopper, to avoid losing too much during the breathing phase.
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I forgot to mention, I use a recirculating cooling system currently with a 55 gallon drum reservoir. On a hard fast run the temp of the reservoir slowly increases, so of course, so does the temp of my distillate. During spirit runs, which I do much slower, the temp pretty much stays whatever the ambient temp is with only a slight rise in temp.I can understand confusion on the subject because there are actually instructions out…at least when I got started…that indicated that the distillate should come out hot and be left to air while cooling. As discussed here, that results in excessive evaporation, also in my personal experience you get the appearance of significant loss just from the alcohol contracting as the temp decreases making it appear more than it actually was. People might try to call BS on that because the internet says that alcohol expands at .0007 per degree f but I can take it hot off the still at say 115f, bottle a full bottle and when it cools to 60 or 45f have noticeably less without a significant loss in weight. This is also why when you bottle cold and it heats up it will pop a cork or break a capped bottle.A message to new membersWe want you to be safe and succeed so start hereMy Apple Brandy Recipe
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Hot volatile vapour plus flame……. hmmmmmmMy fekking eyes are bleeding! Installed BS Filters – better! :DLife has gotten interesting!
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My electricity doesn’t have much flame.. Thanks for the input guys! But still confused (slightly). What is the purpose of “airing out”, if not to allow evaporation?Fyi pot still used
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One reason is the contact with oxygen which is useful for certain products. In general all products improve with a period of aging… even a neutral one is softer and less pungent.
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Thanks
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But are you distilling in a well ventilated area, and are you 100% there are no other sources of sparks or naked flames in the immediate vicinity?I’m in the other camp, I often air things for several days and at times for a week. I know many other long term distillers who do the same.How people like Chris and others loose so much alcohol and or flavour out of a jar in such a short time is beyond me.Maybe they have alcoholic Angels or maybe teenagers who visit in the night.99% of what leaves the jar is the shit that we don’t want IMO.The bit that is lost , is more than made up for by the extra jars that are kept that would have otherwise gone to feints.I suggest you try different methods for your self and come to your own conclusion.For the record I use coffee filters held on with rubber bands for covers, any cover that can breath should work though.
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I’ll disagree with the “99% of what leaves the jar is the shit that we don’t want IMO” It’s more like 50 – 50 and good is also lost.My preference is an almost sealed jug that has smaller surface area and extra time.Jars and coffee filters are too wasteful if used for more than a day or two.
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To me, that sounds like a variant of the magic boiling myth.
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It can sound like what ever you think Chris, When or if I ever start getting complaints about how my booze tastes then I’ll start listening to your theories.Until then I’ll continue to do it my way.
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This is something I have noticed. Spirits left in containers that are 2/3 full change for better with time. I assume it is exposure to oxygen. This seems to be true for aged spirits in bottles or jars. No evaporation occurs but the product does mellow.I don’t air my distillate after a spirit run with a loose lid or a coffee filter anymore. I place all hearts cut to one gallon jars that are a maximum of 2/3 full leaving air space. It sits that way until I get water to proof down for barrel aging. There can be a noticeable difference if the time is longer.”What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance”Marcus AureliusI’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
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This is something I have noticed. Spirits left in containers that are 2/3 full change for better with time. I assume it is exposure to oxygen. This seems to be true for aged spirits in bottles or jars. No evaporation occurs but the product does mellow.I don’t air my distillate after a spirit run with a loose lid or a coffee filter anymore. I place all hearts cut to one gallon jars that are a maximum of 2/3 full leaving air space. It sits that way until I get water to proof down for barrel aging. There can be a noticeable difference if the time is longer.That’s an interesting point! I think one worth trying
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I will agree with Dan on this one. I’ve noticed this with Scotch. It’s not uncommon for me to uncorked a bottle, have a couple of drinks then not touch that jug for 2 or 3 months. A freshly opened bottle can seem a little harsh at times. Same bottle a month or 2 later seems smoother.As far as new make goes. One time I got called out to work right after finishing a run. 500ml jars with coffee filters on them. When I got home 2 weeks later all those jars were 3/4 to 2/3 full. I could have cried that day.
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What do you think you mostly lost? Nasties, good flavors, alcohol?
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This is something I have noticed. Spirits left in containers that are 2/3 full change for better with time. I assume it is exposure to oxygen. This seems to be true for aged spirits in bottles or jars. No evaporation occurs but the product does mellow.I don’t air my distillate after a spirit run with a loose lid or a coffee filter anymore. I place all hearts cut to one gallon jars that are a maximum of 2/3 full leaving air space. It sits that way until I get water to proof down for barrel aging. There can be a noticeable difference if the time is longer.That’s an interesting point! I think one worth tryingThat’s a not uncommon aging method that allows better oxidation in a container that doesn’t breath.A message to new membersWe want you to be safe and succeed so start hereMy Apple Brandy Recipe
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What do you think you mostly lost? Nasties, good flavors, alcohol?I definitly lost abv, but up till that point I thought it had the makings for my best rum to date. The nasties were gone but so was a lot of that nice rum flavor I’d been chasing. I ended up rerunning the whole batch as faints in next run.
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This concept isn’t too far off from what the big guys do with their vendom beer columns. They’ll run their first condenser at a precise temp to allow their heats the vent of via a fire arrestor and their hearts and tails to condense.Hell, even Alan Bishop has spoken about running your condensor hot to allow some of the more volatile components to blow off.If you’re going to play with this just remember to do so in a VERY well ventilated area. Alcohol vapor is heavier than air, so it will settle out near the ground until you reach a dangerous air fuel ratio unless you have good air exchange.There are two types of people in this world.1. Those that can extrapolate from incomplete information.
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